I feel absolutely the same--the third episode especially. I guess it's really just an issue again of there being so few "gay" shows, so a number of people who probably would never have seen Weekend either, are disappointed that they don't immediately relate with it, or do find it boring (which seems to be the main criticism.) I don't, *shrug* I just hope HBO decides to at least give it a second season.

BTW you mentioned Lorimer the short film that inspired it--I've been trying to track that down. Did you see it online?

I had no idea Randy Harrison was so vocal about his role on QAF in the end, but I can't say I blame him==most of the time I wanted to punch Justin in the mouth. Of course part of the issue was simply that the show had to keep Justin in Brian's orbit, probably partly due to uninspired writing but also due to the fanbase. I remember Davies said one reason he couldn't see QAF going on long was that he just didn't think that the equivalent character, at his age and experience, would stay in the same social world as the others for long (there were plans for a sitcom spin off involving Vince's mother and her group but for whatever reason it never happened, though I believe scripts were written.) Of course that was a problem with the North American QAF in general--they felt like they had to, and were, representating every type of gay and lesbian character, and I think ultimately that meant they didn't do a great job with any of them. Davies got in some flack for not having the lesbian characters very prominent but as he pointed out, that wasn't who he was telling his story about. In that instance I think Looking is similar, and I appreciate that, though I suppose I can appreciate that that means if an audience member doesn't want to spend 30 minutes with those characters than they're not gonna like the show.

Mostly the bold. I also am suspecting this is more a case of trying to be everything to everybody when it should...just be. FOR NOW that is.

I don't find it boring at all. And I hope that it is allowed to grow. Typically, it takes a show two seasons to even find its footing.

I don't even think I want to know what RH said about his character's direction because it would color my prespective. I remember how young I was when US OAF came out and there was nothing like it. So naturally I floated to it. And I do feel that it did try to cater to everyone.

Exactly. It's an 8 episode 30 minute series -- for a drama (or however its classified) that's not really a lot of time. I suppose if people already find that boring than they should just move on, but... I do find some of the more critical reactions on blogs funny, though. One person will complain that the show simply is not gay enough, another person complains that, for example, they show a bathouse, cruising in the park and dancing to 80s music like Erasure so the show is somehow out of touch with the times (whatever that means,) etc

EricMontreal22 -

Brad Fraser, a Canadian gay playwright who I really admire, and have some sort of "facebook" friendship with (Mia Kirshner and Thomas Gibson were in a movie of his most well known play, Love and Human Remains) was one of the main writers for the final seasons of the show, and while his plays are always over the top and sexually graphic I was disappointed that he didn't seem to bring much of what I liked about his work to QAF (I have to be careful what I say on FB about the show, lol.)

Of course part of the issue was simply that the show had to keep Justin in Brian's orbit, probably partly due to uninspired writing but also due to the fanbase. I remember Davies said one reason he couldn't see QAF going on long was that he just didn't think that the equivalent character, at his age and experience, would stay in the same social world as the others for long.

Brad Fraser spoke about the limitations of what the writers had to come up with stories for all the characters due to how the fanbase didn't want Justin to exist without wanting him to constantly be beside Brian (and in his bed) AND how they always wanted to see Brian succeed in the things that he wanted: his job, his friends, his Justin (even when he was treating them like trash).

Fraser gave an interview on some Canadian entertainment show, in which he said QAF was written with the mindset of entertaining bored, fat middle-aged housewives. Ultimately, he was right. I don't think that he received any flak from his bosses, but the fanbase was riled up for quite some time. Then the final season happened with Brian purposing marriage and wanting to by a home for him and Justin. It felt like they were taunting the audience, who so wanted to see that happen for the couple. They couldn't stand it that Justin chose to leave Pittsburgh and Brian, in order to pursue his career and that Brian stayed in town, still friends with Michael.

For Lorimer, I found a link to the short film, back in early 2013. Of course the link isn't active anymore.

Edited February 4, 201411 yr by difficultdiva

Taoboi wrote:

Mostly the bold. I also am suspecting this is more a case of trying to be everything to everybody when it should...just be. FOR NOW that is.

I don't find it boring at all. And I hope that it is allowed to grow. Typically, it takes a show two seasons to even find its footing.

Exactly. It's an 8 episode 30 minute series -- for a drama (or however its classified) that's not really a lot of time. I suppose if people already find that boring than they should just move on, but... I do find some of the more critical reactions on blogs funny, though. One person will complain that the show simply is not gay enough, another person complains that, for example, they show a bathouse, cruising in the park and dancing to 80s music like Erasure so the show is somehow out of touch with the times (whatever that means,) etc

I have the same wish for HBO giving the show a second season, but I don't think they'll change how they'll write the characters and their storylines. I don't think we'll have QAF Ted/Job like problems happening to Patrick, Agustin or Dom in the second season (if it happens)

That's why I find the constant need to compare Looking to all the other shows, especially QAF so unnecessary and even more limiting to viewers. They're trying so hard to categorize the show, that they're not letting themselves to let go and just watch the show. Go on the journey with these characters. The issues with how much/not enough sex, the ways that they go about having sex and the music thing is odd. These characters are not sexless gay characters, quick with a flippant comment, always fabulous aka "on" and their lives are in the forefront, without them ALL needing a "Grace" to their "Will". Now, some complaints about there not being enough females in all the characters lives. This show isn't supposed to focus on those characters.

Clubs, even ones in this day and age will play Erasure, Bronski Beat, etc. Those groups and their songs still inspire DJs, musicians and little gay/bi boys and lesbian/bi girls out here in this world today.

I think some folks just want to feel apart of this, even if they hate the show and will continue to watch and come up with new topics to pick on during each new episode.

Edited February 4, 201411 yr by difficultdiva

Exactly. It's an 8 episode 30 minute series -- for a drama (or however its classified) that's not really a lot of time. I suppose if people already find that boring than they should just move on, but... I do find some of the more critical reactions on blogs funny, though. One person will complain that the show simply is not gay enough, another person complains that, for example, they show a bathouse, cruising in the park and dancing to 80s music like Erasure so the show is somehow out of touch with the times (whatever that means,) etc

I saw those criticism as well and I LOL. I can honestly say that the show is not out of touches with the times. Now the people writing the criticism may be because everything mentioned in the bold...are things that go on to this day.

And I can say with confidence that 'Sweet Dreams' 80 music or not STILL will get large crowds of people out to the dance floor. In NEW YORK at that.

EDIT TO ADD: EXACTLY, DD!!! Are the characters gay? Yes! However, they are people who just happened to be gay, gay is not the everything about them. Nor should it be. And that 'brand' of gay does exist.

Edited February 4, 201411 yr by Taoboi

Frontal nudity in episode 3

Jonathan Groff's on tonight's "What What Happens Live" with Toni Braxton.

Frontal nudity in episode 3

Ha a distant shower shot, right? Or did I miss more -- still I guess that's something Did QAF ever have full frontal nudity?

I have the same wish for HBO giving the show a second season, but I don't think they'll change how they'll write the characters and their storylines. I don't think we'll have QAF Ted/Job like problems happening to Patrick, Agustin or Dom in the second season (if it happens)

That's why I find the constant need to compare Looking to all the other shows, especially QAF so unnecessary and even more limiting to viewers. They're trying so hard to categorize the show, that they're not letting themselves to let go and just watch the show. Go on the journey with these characters. The issues with how much/not enough sex, the ways that they go about having sex and the music thing is odd. These characters are not sexless gay characters, quick with a flippant comment, always fabulous aka "on" and their lives are in the forefront, without them ALL needing a "Grace" to their "Will". Now, some complaints about there not being enough females in all the characters lives. This show isn't supposed to focus on those characters.

Clubs, even ones in this day and age will play Erasure, Bronski Beat, etc. Those groups and their songs still inspire DJs, musicians and little gay/bi boys and lesbian/bi girls out here in this world today.

I think some folks just want to feel apart of this, even if they hate the show and will continue to watch and come up with new topics to pick on during each new episode.

Agreed.

When I was more into going clubs the night my friends liked to go to to the most, anyway, were 80s nights (and I'm about the age of all of these characters.) I or my friends have all done apparently retro things like gone to a bath house (...) cruised a park just to see what it was like (admittedly I'd find that too scary myself ) etc.

Interesting what you say about Fraser and QAF. Maybe sometime I'll catch him off guard and ask him -- when he does talk about it now he says the actual writing room experience and hanging out on set was some of the happiest time in his career (granted at least some of this was due to getting a *steady* paycheque for doing something he loves.)

Jonathan Groff's on tonight's "What What Happens Live" with Toni Braxton.

Tamar Braxton

Did JG have a stye on his left eye?

Edited February 5, 201411 yr by John

I wasn't looking that close to try and see anything.

WWHL was a fun show last night. Tamar seemed smitten with Groff (as everyone should be).

EM22 - Well, I'm glad that Fraser had a great time with his fellow writers. Just from that interview he gave, it seemed like the writers had to stick to a particular set of directives regarding how the characters were written during that time and they couldn't go down another direction for them.

It does seem out of touch with the times though. The music, the bathhouse, even the bars/clubs seem out of place.

And despite all the things that happened in 3 I still didn't experience an "oh wow this is genius television" moment like I do with most shows I lobe

Diva, I have no doubt about that. The show had basically found its formula (more than basically) by then, and honestly while hey I liked some of Sisters a lot but Ron Cowen and Daniel Lipman are hardly groundbreakers (as groundbreaking as their 80s gay/AIDS TV movie A Touch of Frost was for its time.)

Sunspear, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree. The bars/clubs are exactly what I experienced in San Francisco the several times I've been there (it has to be said that SF has a much older seeming gay scene than I initially expected -- more so than, say, Montreal.) I'm 33, so about the age of the cast or somewhere in between, and none of the things showed seem remotely out of touch with the times to me. It certainly doesn't have any real big "oh wow" moments, though I think the direction is often subtly genius, more so than other "mumblecore/indie" style TV series out there. Just the way things are shot -- like the scene at the club in episode two and what is focused on, etc, are done with much more thought than say most of the direction in Girls (a show I do mostly enjoy.)

Diva, I have no doubt about that. The show had basically found its formula (more than basically) by then, and honestly while hey I liked some of Sisters a lot but Ron Cowen and Daniel Lipman are hardly groundbreakers (as groundbreaking as their 80s gay/AIDS TV movie A Touch of Frost was for its time.)

Sunspear, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree. The bars/clubs are exactly what I experienced in San Francisco the several times I've been there (it has to be said that SF has a much older seeming gay scene than I initially expected -- more so than, say, Montreal.) I'm 33, so about the age of the cast or somewhere in between, and none of the things showed seem remotely out of touch with the times to me. It certainly doesn't have any real big "oh wow" moments, though I think the direction is often subtly genius, more so than other "mumblecore/indie" style TV series out there. Just the way things are shot -- like the scene at the club in episode two and what is focused on, etc, are done with much more thought than say most of the direction in Girls (a show I do mostly enjoy.)

Same.

Just one more reply to sun's comment

"It does seem out of touch with the times though. The music, the bathhouse, even the bars/clubs seem out of place."

I think that's just the thing. With whose time or reality? I assume, and this is not a bad thing at all, that you mean your own experiences in the gay "scene" (if there even is a gay scene...) And that's fine, but it seems completely in touch with mine (something the US QAF, even when I enjoyed it, never did except maybe in the initial coming out scenes but I'm pretty thankful to have a show for once that makes zero mention of anyone having to come back to anyone--family, friends or strangers.) I think that's one reason some are taking issue with the show, but (and I'm not pointing this at you) it misses the point that it's not meant to be about some universal gay experience.