After all the above, I'm now to the point where I don't even really "hate" RC (as a writer). I think of him as the equivalent of Stephanie Meyer. He's a mediocre writer in an age when mediocrity can be very profitable.

Mmmmhmmm. He's not a HORRIBLE writer -- frankly, what JER did to Days purposefully during the Salem Stalker storyline is what I'd call horrible. I get that Ron loves the characters he's writing for, loves GH and loves the fans. But so does Stephanie Meyer. Soaps have a lot of mediocre writers now, because they don't strive for the best and the best strive for primetime gigs that pay better.

I never understand the "real" GH argument that seems to only go on with that show. Days was trashed to high heaven in JER's second run, but fans of the show don't ever pretend that era didn't exist.

That's not the case, AFAIC, but to each their own.

Same here, because I did not watch OLTL with any regularity until several months into RC's tenure. In fact, I'd say the last full ep I watched before Nov. 2007 would have been circa '03 or '04. My getting into it had nothing to do with Higley or anybody else.

Mmmmhmmm. He's not a HORRIBLE writer -- frankly, what JER did to Days purposefully during the Salem Stalker storyline is what I'd call horrible. I get that Ron loves the characters he's writing for, loves GH and loves the fans. But so does Stephanie Meyer. Soaps have a lot of mediocre writers now, because they don't strive for the best and the best strive for primetime gigs that pay better.

I never understand the "real" GH argument that seems to only go on with that show. Days was trashed to high heaven in JER's second run, but fans of the show don't ever pretend that era didn't exist.

I think that crap with Eli combined with Teen Jessica and that damn musical gives Salem Stalker a run for it's money.

Edited April 18, 201312 yr by chicklitsandfantasies

Yeah that [!@#$%^&*] today On GH about how Tracy has the Pickle Lila recipe but ELQ owns the name so we can stop her from using the name. Really RC/FV. Stop with these children's game. You knew PP had thru Feb 2013 ro make OLTL happen or lose it. Plus according to Kassie's newest Interview, FV knew PP was gonna make OLTL back in December 2012 if not earlier when he texted to ask if Kassie had been contacted. So stop playing the wounded victim. You knew what that agreement to BORROW the 3 OLTL roles was. You just never thought PP would make it happen. Now You have scrambled egg on your face & need to make your bed with the mess you created.

So yes like another poster said, forget OLTL, focus on GH and make it shine. OLTL will do fine without you two.

Edited April 18, 201312 yr by John

Where Carlivati and Valentini went wrong is one question, and a very complex one with multiple parts.

When this board didn't favor them? That's far easier, and I know because I was there: SON has simply never, ever liked them. I did, when they were good. But the majority of the board's most vocal posters overall reacted to growing positive sentiment towards them by clamping down on them in the fall of 2007. So that's that.

I think that may be fair. I do remember across the board raves when his stuff started showing up, I believe solo (after a few months co-HW with Higley). Was that the Dorian take over of Buchanen E? But yeah, to ask when this board fell out of favour with them, is an odd question. (And I freely grant, while I probably don't give enough credit to the stuff I really have loved, I try to be fair--but I, like many others, prob reacted so negatively in large part because we had soap "press" calling them very early on as the new saviours of soaps--it was, at least on some level, a backlash thing.)

Wait, what? The Pickle Lila name copyright issue was an in-joke about the OLTL stuff? I never thought of it that way--but it kinda makes sense and is very Ron (and I have to say, I strongly suspect he thought it was just very clever and meta of him and didn't mean anything too mean spirited by it--but that doesn't make it clever or meta.)

Marceline wasn't Tea's child meant tobe a *boy* too? You forgot that on your list (unless I'm mis-remembering.)

Look, I stand up for some hated writers, like McTavish. But I do think McTavish for all her nightmarish stuff has done some brilliant soap. I have seen less of that from RC, though I think he's done some very *watchable* soap (and in the last five years that's rated fairly highly compared to most soaps.) But I think he deserves to be on a worst list as much as "McTrash"--so it does irk me when you read people like Nellie, at least back in the day, call Carlivati the new marland and then in the same article go on about how awful she is.

I've always said that coming in under budget was a mistake. Use all the money they give you! If you come in under budget, it sends a message that you have too much money to begin with and they always ask you to cut more. The rumor mill says that GH always came in OVER budget. Which show is still on ABC - OLTL which came in under budget or overbudgeted GH? Don't make the same mistake twice Frank!

Yeah, but see, I get the feeling that if Frank were to spend more money, that would result only in more expensive crap on-screen. Know what I'm saying? #questionabletaste

Edited April 18, 201312 yr by Khan

They had a far amount of supporters, I should know, I was one of them. Especially around the time they came back from the writers strike. They hadn't sunk to doing their "Haha mentally ill people" crap by that point. The only folks I remember constantly nagging about their stuff early on were marceline and some of the Y&R fans.

They had a lot of support on this board, far more than hate. They were praised and called the saviors of soaps, the next Marland, etc... here and in the "soap press" and if anyone dare to not praise their every moment then they were wrote off. It dwindled with time, and the anniversary sure did turn a lot of people, as did the rapemance, and crazy cartoon tess. But there was a time when if you didnt worship them, you were the minority and you were an idiot.

Ah yes, back when people jumped all over me for referring to the Church of Carlivati. #vindicated

Yes! I remember this as well. You are 100% vindicated lol

Marceline!

Word, Same, and "You go, gurl!"

They had a lot of support on this board, far more than hate. They were praised and called the saviors of soaps, the next Marland, etc... here and in the "soap press" and if anyone dare to not praise their every moment then they were wrote off. It dwindled with time, and the anniversary sure did turn a lot of people, as did the rapemance, and crazy cartoon tess. But there was a time when if you didnt worship them, you were the minority and you were an idiot.

While they have fallen out of favor with members of this message board, I am shocked that they never fell out of favor with the soap press. (I know that this is a different topic, but I did not want to create a separate thread for it.) Since Marland died, I can't recall anyone (including JER) getting so much adoring press for so long. I have no idea why this love affair still exists, but I'll give props to Cartini for being able to masterfully handle the press (despite sucking at their normal jobs).

Edited April 18, 201312 yr by Max

While they have fallen out of favor with members of this message board, I am shocked that they never fell out of favor with the soap press. (I know that this is a different topic, but I did not want to create a separate thread for it.) Since Marland died, I can't recall anyone (including JER) getting so much adoring press for so long. I have no idea why this love affair still exists, but I'll give props to Cartini for being able to masterfully handle the press (despite sucking at their normal jobs).

I think it has to do with a few issues. One is that the legit soap press is no more--the magazines are much more afraid to be critical. Even gossipy bloggers like Nellie have to brown nose when they do interviews--and he's almost been blacklisted it seems due to his other antics.

The other is a combo of love of their genre and the desire to keep on being able to do what they do--which they seem to feel means calling anything that seems to be doing well (GH is on an upswing! We're saved! OLTL was canceled while its ratings were actually NOT the lowest of any soap!) as the new saviour.

I'll give props to Cartini for being able to masterfully handleurbate the press

To add to that, while I think AMC had been a sad shell of itself for a long time, and hit a nadir in the last half of Pratt's run, I do think the last year or so (even under the largely dull Swajeski/Kreizman era)--or maybe a bit longer were unfairly maligned in the soap "press" to support OLTL. There was a lot of spec that one soap or the other would be canceled, so people seemed to turn against AMC in favour of OLTL--which included even more pimping of its team as a godsend.

Ah yes, back when people jumped all over me for referring to the Church of Carlivati. #vindicated

At first my big issue with Carlivati was the hype surrounding him. Thanks to Higley, OLTL viewers were so deep in Battered Viewers Syndrome that they were just grateful not to get pushed down the stairs. I never liked him but I didn't really grow to hate him (as a writer, not a person) until three things:

1. Sending RJ off with a note. I'm not even going to get into the mess of breaking up RJ and Lindsay just have her back humping Bo's leg but sending RJ off like a chump was unforgivable. Or so I thought. I had no idea what unforgivable would look like until...
2. The Rapemance. Even now it's hard for me to convey what a visceral hatred I have and had for that story and what it represented. It was sickening and it defiled the original Spring Fling story in a particularly hateful, misogynistic way. That's the story where I wanted to punch RC in the neck (as a writer) then set his WGA card on fire in front of him. The Rapemance was OLTL's Unabortion.
3. Last but not least: Daniela Rayburn Delgado Manning. KM is a sweet kid and I wish her the best but I can't stand the sight of Dani because she's the corporeal manifestation of everything I find wrong with RC's writing: his laziness, (I want TnT to have a kid so let me just invent one), his disrespect for the audience and previous story, (Who cares if we said over and over again that they slept together 8 years ago? They'll accept whatever I tell them.) his adoration of his own cleverness, (Let's have Jack reference their age difference. Won't that be hilarious?!) and especially, his misogyny (I can't make Tea a rape victim since I raped Marty and Jessica so let me turn her into a babymaker. Because women can only be one or the other.)

After all the above, I'm now to the point where I don't even really "hate" RC (as a writer). I think of him as the equivalent of Stephanie Meyer. He's a mediocre writer in an age when mediocrity can be very profitable.

Marceline!

I agree! She's definitely won me over the last several months, she is just so spot on! I didn't even watch OLTL more than an episode and a half a month... but everything she described, I see shades of it or even duplicates of it on GH.

When I started watching OLTL again in 2008, around the time of the anniversary, I knew little of who they were - I mostly wanted to see Tina again, and some of the anniversary material. Everything with Tess licking glass doors and the flashbacks and Gigi shaming her son to accept his [!@#$%^&*] stain of a father was so horrific, I didn't even realize at first that the person writing this was worshiped as a god by much of the soap press.

I came here in early 2009 and by that time most of the focus seemed to be on Tarty or the aftereffects of Tarty, and on fan wars about Natalie, Tea or Blair. There didn't seem to be as much "Cartini" worship (there was far more MAB worship - I spent so much time arguing back against that I don't think I turned my full irritation toward our saviors until later in that year).

I think SON has usually been relatively objective about them in my time here. Not me, really - I'm not very objective, and if I don't like a writer, I will run through the virtual neighborhoods warning all the innocents to hide their favorite characters under the bed - but other people. I think only a few of us would fall into the "hater" category. Even then, I like some of what Ron Carlivati does, and I'll praise that. But the blind praise, and the general ugliness and amateurishness of 90% of his material, and his complete contempt for the soap genre, usually turns me away from any objectivity.

Edited April 18, 201312 yr by CarlD2