OLTL sure was consistent when it came to throwing their Black/non-Anglo Latino characters under the bus to prop their white ones - the aforementioned Vangie, RJ, Keri, and Antonio (not to mention Adriana and Cristian) being proof of this.

Although my role and position in the Jowars is well-documented and I willingly cop to it, my issues with that are nothing compared to my red-hot rage and everlasting hate about what was done to the character of RJ. That character was so destroyed, so completely eviscerated that it still makes me sick to think about. It was bad enough that Carlivati sent RJ off with a [!@#$%^&*] NOTE to Lindsay, (who once again was chasing Buke dick in spite of the fact that RJ treated her better than Bo ever did) but then when they brought him back to pimp TnT, it was insult on top of injury. RJ's return was one of the few times I tuned back into OLTL and all they did was kick him in the nuts again and again and then Carlivati blamed it on the fact that TDS wasn't available more. Also, let's not forget the travesty that was Hank Gannon/NP's return. For all we know Hank is still wandering around the Buchanan mason even Rachel is still helping out her friend in rehab and AMC's Reggie Montgomery is still at basketball camp.

I need to get out of this thread because y'all are making me hate some mothafuckers all over again.

Edited September 25, 201213 yr by marceline

She would have lost to her regardless of if she was white bc the show was intent on pushing Natalie with John. Marty was an accomlished educated professional who had overcome alot in her life, yet she too ended up losing to Natalie and got a far worse deal, with ending up turning into a psycho and shamefully dismissed bc John dropped her for Natalie and she wasnt black

I disagree, if only because they sure wouldn't have had her portrayed as a second-fiddle character to Natalie. She and McBain wouldn't have lasted, but her position as a lead heroine would've set in stone if she were white.

As much as I was both LOLing and SMHing at Marty's exit (I'll explain in a future thread), there was never a doubt throughout her on-and-off almost-20-year tenure that the show considered her a lead heroine. I can't say the same for Evangeline Williamson, who - despite what that show would have one believe - was popular and beloved by many viewers. And before anyone tells me that she wasn't on long enough to earn that lead heroine status, I give you this heifer:

who got top-billing from Day 2.

Edited September 25, 201213 yr by VirginiaHamilton

Shannon Kane was only on for a handful of episodes in AMC's last year and in that year they did more with Natalia than they did with Frankie. It was a shame

The true shame was that her character got more movement in those handful of episodes than she did for the prior couple of years that she was on the show.

and then Carlivati blamed it on the fact that TDS wasn't available more.

Was this the impetus behind TDS putting OLTL on blast for their treatment of his (and other Black male, if I'm not mistaken) characters? I can't remember if he also called Cartini out for their shiteous writing/treatment of Black female characters, but if Ron lying about TDS not being available was what caused him to roast Ron and Frank over the coals, then it is well-deserved.

There's white girls named Keesha

Sorry to get off this topic but you posting that made me think of Kesha vs. Tami on BBW lol

LONG story.

I want to know. I didnt even remember the first Keesha how long was she on?.

Cartooni treated all minority actors and actresses shitty.

Was this the impetus behind TDS putting OLTL on blast for their treatment of his (and other Black male, if I'm not mistaken) characters? I can't remember if he also called Cartini out for their shiteous writing/treatment of Black female characters, but if Ron lying about TDS not being available was what caused him to roast Ron and Frank over the coals, then it is well-deserved.

I won't presume to say what caused him to do that interview. I'm just thrilled he did.

I don't think Ron lied per se (at least not in this case) but I think that he just didn't consider RJ or TDS important enough to warrant some flexibility. I promise you that if TSJ became available for only a day or two, Ron would bend the laws of space-time just to get a crumb of his Tale of Two Todds.

Edited September 25, 201213 yr by marceline

The true shame was that her character got more movement in those handful of episodes than she did for the prior couple of years that she was on the show.

Does anyone remember the story where Natalia was a cop turned Fusion model back in 2010. For a while there, the show was focused on her quite a bit (thanks to Lorraine Broderick?) & I thought she developed as a character a lot in that time period. I thought SK/Natalia had some pretty noteworthy moments during this story.

I loved these scenes. Watching them again I'm not even that annoyed with Darnell's OTT theatrics for some reason. LOL

Perhaps, I'm biased over my love for the Debbi Morgan/Darnell Williams powerhouse, but I honestly believe that they were a major reason why Angie/Jesse's last years were (relatively) decent because of their being able to rise above the mediocre material.

I only wish that I could say the same about Cornelius Smith, Jr., as his natural talent wasn't enough to overcome the half-assed attention that they did pay his character. The same can be said for Shannon Kane, whose character was largely wasted on AMC.

I definitely think that the acting from Debbie Morgan and Darnell Williams (especially Debbie Morgan) helped out the characters of Angie and Jesse a lot. I thought that Angie in particular was a very solid character and pretty much remained that way throughout her storylines, even the ones that weren't so good.

What you said, though I'll add the fact that none of the males that they paired/teased her with was deserving of her time. Not a single one.

I don't think that there were a whole lot of people that felt this way but I actually liked Evangeline with both Christian and Todd. But I think that the writers botched both romances/potential romances with those two guys. I liked her and Christain at first, but I think that the writers ended up rushing them. I didn't see anything wrong with him falling for her while she was still blind, but I think that the writers moved a little too fast with them. Like when they had him kind of ambush her with that kiss. I think that the writers should have had more of a slowburn with those two and I think that things could have worked out better between them. Like after they had Christian confess to Antonio that he had feelings for her and then kind of hint to her that he was digging her, they could have had him try and hold back on his feelings for a while.

They could have had him wait a while before he confessed his feelings to her, all the while supporting her and being her friend. I think that if the writers had went at a slower pace with them at first, Christian and Evangeline might have fared better as couple. And one really big problem I think they had as a couple, (maybe their biggest problem) is that Christian kept acting like he wasn't worthy of Evangeline.

I know some fans didn't like him with her, but I don't think it boded well for the couple, when Christian himself kept acting that way. Including how jealous he acted of her and Todd, and doing immature things like punching Todd in the gut/attacking Todd because of his jealously/insecurities. And then randomly sleeping with Blair on top of all that. All that stuff made Christian look immature and weak. (And I liked Christian).

I also liked her and Todd at first, because I think their relationship was blooming from a genuine friendship. I know Todd did a lot of pretty terrible things and had a lot of faults, but I felt that his and Evangeline's relationship was genuine. I think that it came from a real place of gratitude and support for one another. It became really strong after she helped him when he was on death row. Todd wasn't trying to romance someone like Nora, and it wasn't anything like the mess that was Todd and Marty. It seemed like Todd was developing strong feelings/falling for his good friend. I liked that and I could believe that. But I feel like the writers botched that by not really letting Todd be free of Blair's leash.

And as far as John went I don't think that John was really fitting for anybody, letting alone someone like Evangeline. The only times I could even barely tolerate John was his brief relationship with Blair, because I felt like he was one of a very few men, that she couldn't really run roughshod over. He knew what he was getting into with Blair and he wasn't going to let her dominate him. He doesn't really let anyone dominate him and even Blair was not an exception. Even though I don't like John, I did like that Blair wasn't able to treat him like she had treated other men. The only other time I could barely tolerate John was with Marty and that had a lot to do with his relationship with Cole.

But IMO, John really isn't a good character and definitely not a good romantic character. It doesn't seem like he has really loved any woman. With his never telling Evangeline that he loved her and waiting 100,000 years to admit to Natalie that he grudgingly loved her. I just don't think that he is really a good fit for any woman, largely because of the way he is written.

Edited September 25, 201213 yr by xtr

I remember when Adriana went under the bus for Gigi.

Does anyone remember the story where Natalia was a cop turned Fusion model back in 2010. For a while there, the show was focused on her quite a bit (thanks to Lorraine Broderick?) & I thought she developed as a character a lot in that time period. I thought SK/Natalia had some pretty noteworthy moments during this story.

I loved these scenes. Watching them again I'm not even that annoyed with Darnell's OTT theatrics for some reason. LOL

Now you're just trying to break my heart.

Now you're just trying to break my heart.

;'-( Sorry!

I adored SK's Natalia. I also loved LB from her days as OLTL's Cassie and was delighted to see her on AMC. But even then, I found it curious that AMC would decide to make Jesse's post-Angie whilst presumed dead wife a white woman. I had to ask myself, what made AMC go in this direction opposed to hiring a black actress for the role? Did they not want to "crowd" their canvas with yet another blacktress (sorry ), or did they want to be "progressive" and mix it up (pun intended) going the interracial route? Even still, I felt like there was some meat there that they didn't serve. I know folks disagreed with me, but I was craving at least one moment where St. Angie lost her [!@#$%^&*] for at least a millisecond and said something snide out of her hurt and anger over Jesse "running off with some white woman" before collecting herself and apologzing. I'm sorry, but I like dirty/gritty/real, I like drama that makes us uncomfortable at times and delves into the dark reaches of who we are when we're at our most vulnerable. If the daytime audience at lage isn't ready for that, well, that's too bad. I think about Brewster Place yet again when Lonette McKee's lesbian character tells her partner (played by Paula Kelly) that she doesn't want to go to the gay club that night and hang out with their friends, "a couple of fags". And Paula Kelly's character schools her on how they're just "a couple of dykes" so what's her point? I like drama that goes there and isn't afraid of making a character look like a flawed human living in a very real world.

She would have lost to her regardless of if she was white bc the show was intent on pushing Natalie with John. Marty was an accomlished educated professional who had overcome alot in her life, yet she too ended up losing to Natalie and got a far worse deal, with ending up turning into a psycho and shamefully dismissed bc John dropped her for Natalie and she wasnt black

The fact that Susan Haskell and Michael Easton didn't turn out to have any powerful draw made this conclusion that the same thing happened to a white actress possible. it makes for sort of a behind the scenes retcon where you get to fix things so that you can say look the same thing happened to her and she wasn't black even though the same principles weren't at play. Brian Frons acknowledged that there was something about ME/REG so had she been white this something would have continued and the rest would have been dropped since their goal was to have ME in a steamy relationship that mirrored whatever he did on Port Charles.

There was a massive fan campaign waged by the Jolie fans which included threatening sponsors over the horrors of a black woman besting a white woman. I am sure they weren't being racist or anything....just making sure that the balance of the soap universe was not disrupted by anything progressive. It paid off and those fans were allowed to have their insipid pairing though they never got the all out passionate love story that they wanted. The satisfaction of being victorious was enough and pretending that this was the most super super couple a soap could ever produce was enough.

I adored SK's Natalia. I also loved LB from her days as OLTL's Cassie and was delighted to see her on AMC. But even then, I found it curious that AMC would decide to make Jesse's post-Angie whilst presumed dead wife a white woman. I had to ask myself, what made AMC go in this direction opposed to hiring a black actress for the role? Did they not want to "crowd" their canvas with yet another blacktress (sorry ), or did they want to be "progressive" and mix it up (pun intended) going the interracial route? Even still, I felt like there was some meat there that they didn't serve. I know folks disagreed with me, but I was craving at least one moment where St. Angie lost her [!@#$%^&*] for at least a millisecond and said something snide out of her hurt and anger over Jesse "running off with some white woman" before collecting herself and apologizing.

I wanted that scene too. I wanted it SO bad. As much I hated the timeline of Jesse's second family, I wanted the appearance of Rebecca to be all kinds of crazy messy. After all they brought on freaking Laura Koffmann to play Natalia's mother. Why not write something amazing for these actors and let them go to town? Instead they turned the perfection mode on Angie up to 11, ramped up the martyrdom on Rebecca to "brain tumor," and gave Jesse and Rebecca almost no scenes so we couldn't see any evidence of their relationship for ourselves. Where was the anger? Where was the fighting? Everybody just got quiet and noble until Rebecca was given a nice quiet death off-screen.

I'm sorry, but I like dirty/gritty/real, I like drama that makes us uncomfortable at times and delves into the dark reaches of who we are when we're at our most vulnerable. If the daytime audience at lage isn't ready for that, well, that's too bad. I think about Brewster Place yet again when Lonette McKee's lesbian character tells her partner (played by Paula Kelly) that she doesn't want to go to the gay club that night and hang out with their friends, "a couple of fags". And Paula Kelly's character schools her on how they're just "a couple of dykes" so what's her point? I like drama that goes there and isn't afraid of making a character look like a flawed human living in a very real world.

I like the same kind of drama. I know that Oprah turned Brewster Place into a prime time series and it failed but I think she was just a little ahead of her time. Brewster Place would make a great telenovela. For all those people claiming that soaps could save OWN, if Oprah really wanted to get into scripted drama Brewster Place would be a great place to start and all those blacktresses who get treated like Kleenex by soaps would get a chance to shine and all those writers who want to tell "dirty/gritty/real" stories could get a chance to do that without narrow-minded network execs trying to wrap themselves in a comforting image of world that's solely inhabited by white, skinny, rich people and all the black people are temporary inconveniences who vanish every four years or so.

Edited September 25, 201213 yr by marceline