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Is OLTL the STRONGEST soap to be cancelled? Is it going out the most on top?


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I think The City, not unlike Another World, had a stable of interesting characters who kept things interesting even when the writing was sluggish. I don't think TC was ever really "BAD". One thing I'll say though, it was a very chill, laid back show and there were days where it didn't feel like much "happened" and it was more like just dropping in on everybody. While I like that, not everyone does. That changed with the Masquerade s/l and Tracy did bring a jolt of energy that dry ice Sydney didn't have. There's still an awful lot I missed and I was so in love with the concept of the show and NY at the time that I probably gave allowances, but I'd like to see it from start to finish. It's available and I wish Agnes Nixon could find someone to show it.

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I thought ATWT was very good the previous year, but Kreizman's stuff wasn't all that IMO. I also hated that they didn't start writing for the end until the final two weeks. OLTL has been entertaining, but knowing it's gone forever it doesn't feel completely like end game. It feels more like a season finale, which is understandable for obvious reasons.

I'd say the shows that ended the best were Search For Tomorrow (both times it was cancelled on a creative high), Port Charles (which ended on a brilliant arc and cliffhanger), Passions (the DirecTV stuff was very solid and the finale was good for the time they had), Ryan's Hope (again, on a creative high with lots of returns despite short notice).

Ratings-wise, Passions didn't deserve to be canceled. DirecTV used it to gain subscribers and build their channel, then dumped it. Capitol was doing so well in the ratings it definitely didn't deserve to be canceled. Ryan's Hope I also feel was wronged. It was doing very well until it was dumped for Loving. Both Capitol and RH were screwed over bc Agnes Nixon and Bill Bell are bigger names. It was a good move for CBS considering B&B's popularity, but it was a huge mistake for ABC. Honestly, the beginning of the end. Loving never caught on, whereas Ryan's Hope was an established show that could've easily seen a rebirth in the 90s. Especially when you consider what Claire Labine wrote for GH. The lack of a stable half hour soap was the beginning of their soap problems.

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Agreed. I know RH fans feel it was thrown under the bus for Loving, and when they switched timeslot (was it as far back as 1985 or so?) it partly was, although that wasn't Agnes Nixon's ideal decision--she desperately wanted the show to be sandwiched between AMC and OLTL (which frankly would have made a lot more sense, but oh well). RH's ratings were already slipping when Loving premiered--certainly the time slot made things worse, but really it was ABC not knowing what to do with the show, firing Labine and Avila, etc, that started it.

From Waggerts 1997 Soap Encyclopedia Ryan's Hope did comfortably in the 70s (it was bottom rated its first year with 5.7, then in 1976-77 it moved to a tied 8th out of 15 soaps with OLTL 7.3, above GH--by the next year OLTL climbed slightly ahead but RH stayed middle rated with a 6.9-7.2 between '78 to '81). By '82 to a 5.6, then in '83 to a 5.0 with Loving starting its first year with 3.9, by early '84, before the time switch, Loving was at a 4.1 and RH had plumetted to 3.4, and then after RH went to 3.2 and Loving had its best year with 4.2.

So it is true that the move was probably foolish--Loving gained only slightly and RH lost a lot more, but I don't think it was solely because Loving was Agnes Nixon, unlike what CBS did with Capitol and Bell's B&B (to be fair Capitol had plateaued for a few years and wasn't climbing in the ratings, though they were still good numbers compared to lesser soaps on other networks). I think ABC had been confused by RH, it stopped winning so many awards--mainly cuz ABC fired the creators--and their other soaps were getting the prestige, and ABC was ready to try a new show. The fact Nixon, and Marland who helped ressurect GH, were behind it, of course, didn't hurt.

Ryan's Hope fell fast (Loving had a 3.9 in '87, Ryan's Hope a 2.7). For most of the rest of its run Loving/The City stayed, relative to the other soaps, relatively the same--around a 3 by the late 80s as numbers in general for all soaps fell a bit. ABC didn't really do much for Loving either (of course it seemed that Agnes Nixon was a bit unsure of what to do with it herself, and one reason I think she never sold it to ABC was she felt it never found its footing). The true tragedy I feel though was not giving The City more than a year and a half. Yes, Agnes owned it, and it apparently was expensive--Port Charles was filmed cheaper and could use GH's sets, but 18 months is too short to prove a soap, particularly ironic when as I mentioned it was the only ABC soap in its final months to have an increase in numbers (PC though I think did debut for its first few years higher...) It also didn't help that The City was trying to appeal to a trendy, youth audience, and aired at 11:30 am, that same deadly timeslot in many areas (I remember at the time SOD tsaid that several affiliates were airing it after the news, at 11:35pm where it was getting better numbers than in many places--and for the last few months my ABC affiliate did that, and I actually felt it worked well as a late night soap).

I know RH had a renaissance when Labine (without Avila) returned in its final stint--but it didn't move the ratings even slightly, and I guess the writing was on the wall. It's a great show, and I think canceling it was awful, but I really don't think as soaps started to have more and more issues it would have had any sort of rating renaissance in the 90s--since it never really had any significant rating gains even in the 70s.

Anyway--sorry, rant. And it's true that those numbers aren't demos--and seem to vary slightly depending on source.

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Ha we actually agree ;) I think, while solid enough, its first half year was kinda weak. Issue stories (the racism thing with Angie's clinic, Azure the transexual model) were short term, much like when Malone/Gottlieb first joined OLTL and tried short term stories, and didn't work, and it was a HUGE mistake to do the Masquerader murder mystery SO soon after Loving's. It wasn't bad on tis own and had entertaining moments, but people had just seen, from the same writers, the ultimate soap serial killr story less than a year before--this attempt at a similar quick ratings grab was a huge error in judgement especially since a) the new characters were not established with fans at all yet, and B) the stakes weren't as high as it was far more likely that no one major would die off.

To be honest, as great as Sydney/Morgan Fairchild was, I think the show fully came together when her year contract ended and Tracy Quartemaine took her place. Nearly every character worked or had some sort of purpose even in weak stories (OK Tony was kinda useless and his baby story but Carla being involved helped make up for it). And as sad as I was to see it go, it actually did end *really* well with stories tied up but not completely closed, and of course the final cliffhanger where it was implied Molly (I think that was her name) escaped to kill Sydney... (Nobody ws as annoyed with that cliffhanger as the AMC one :P ), and then the final montage to The beatles The End showing scenes from the full run of the show and shots of cast and crew waving goodbye--really as good an ending as anyone could expect.

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I think I agree with all of that. I did kinda like the feeling of dropping in on friends for 20 minutes even when nothign was happening--once Tracy joined the humour on the show really became top notch (youtube has that clip of her prepping her fake family to meet her fiance). While I wish Soapnet had aired all of Loving (I guess if ABC had owned it they might have considered it in their early days) but the Loving would have made even more sense to try out--showing two eps a day you could run through it in 9 months.

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To this day, I've no idea why anyone at ABC would think luring MF back to daytime would make THE CITY a hit. As popular as she had been years before with FLAMINGO ROAD and SEARCH FOR TOMORROW, by the time LOVING had morphed into THE CITY, she already was, at best, a B-List celebrity, if not a total has-been. IMO, ABC would have been better off signing someone who had a much bigger "name" in the current daytime scene.

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