I need a little help here. I was in a discussion elsewhere about a current soap couple and a non-fan spouted the argument that the couple cannot stand on their own -- that they have to be propped by other characters or couples to sustain a story. I always find this argument kind of silly because of course no pairing, no matter how popular or fabulous, can have a story that is only about the two of them. Stories generally cannot be told about two characters in isolation. And also triangles by virtue of the construction necessitates that in the end, a couple will emerge and one leg of the triangle will lose. So I never really get the difference between "propping" and just telling a story. I mean if a serial killer comes to town and targets one of the heroines who of course then must be rescued by the hero, is she being propped or are they just telling a story?

Anyway, I have been thinking about this and came to the conclusion that probably every popular/successful character or pairing has left a few bodies buried in their wake. I haven't watched a lot of soaps faithfully, but I still hear about fan wars surrounding particular pairings and wanted to see if some of the posters here could tell me of any characters that were "sacrificed" for those couples.

I'll start (even though I'm one of those people that when I story ends, I pretty much forget about it so I'm not very good at my own question).

GL

Josh/Reva: Sonny. I think she went mad eventually so that Josh and Reva could reunite.

Phillip/Harley: Beth kind of was thrown under the bus and went a little crazy in her quest to win Phillip back and it got worse when Phillip chose Harley over her. She brought an abuser into her daughter's life and exposed her to very unsafe conditions and ultimately her child murdered the abuser. That's just one of many horrible things Beth did. At the time I didn't think it was propping Pharley, and it was just "drama" to give Beth a story. But ultimately it did damage her character IMO and Beth fans were outraged.

AMC

Zendall: Aiden is the one that comes to mind. I haven't watched AMC in years, but I recall friends of mine who do watch lamenting the destruction of Aiden's character to prop Zendall. Didn't he and Kendall sleep together while Zack and Greenlee were missing? Wasn't that the beginning of the end for the character?

Here are some other popular couples that you may love or hate. Can you think of any sacrificial lambs that were destroyed to "prop" them?

GH: Jason and Sam, Lucky and Liz, LuLu and Dante (all I can think of since I don't watch the show).

AMC: Tad and Dixie, Ryan and Greenlee, (Please add more if you think of them)

OLTL: Todd and Blair, Todd and Tea, Bo and Nora, Clint and Viki, Tina and Cord

Days: Sami and ???, John and Marlena, Bo and Hope.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Jack being thrown under the bus for Phyllis and Nick twice really ticks me off.

I woudlnt say Courtney as Nem was done and over by the time Courtney was dead. Nik and Em didnt reunite till months after. She wasnt killed so that could happen. The show was strong into pushing Sonny and Emily at that point

Courtney definitely was not trashed for Nik & Emily. In fact, she and Nik were responsible for Jax being trashed.

Though no one was trashed more than AJ was on GH. He was trashed for Sonny & Carly and Jason & Courtney.

I've heard that AJ had a raw deal for awhile now, and I just don't remember a lot of that. Can someone give me a brief synopsis of the character he was prior to Sonny/Carly demanding he give up custody of Micheal?

I've heard that AJ had a raw deal for awhile now, and I just don't remember a lot of that. Can someone give me a brief synopsis of the character he was prior to Sonny/Carly demanding he give up custody of Micheal?

AJ was usually a drunk and a screwup, the family burden. I don't know if it got worse or not, it just seemed so damn repetitive, and forced. I remember the scenes where he got custody of his son (which was written as being a horrible crime against humanity) and every time he held the baby, they would play a tape of a baby crying. Every time.

Ok. That mostly seems accurate to what I always saw when I started watching at the end of 99'. I never felt that AJ as a character was subverted, he always seemed to be a "loser" figure and was always supposed to pale in comparison to "good son" Jason.

Edited October 21, 201114 yr by Skin

There were also daily scenes of Emily verbally abusing her family, especially AJ, for not bathing Jason's feet often enough.

Soap couples really should happen organically, so eventually when other characters begin rooting for them, you've watched it happen over time so it's not propping. Propping is when some character suddenly decides they love this new flavor of the month couple and cheer them on. Villains, organically, should never prop, so a serial killer taking your heroine isn't propping your couple, it's hindering it. It only is propping if you actually hope the heroine is killed because it's been shoved by your throat.

Watch Santa Barbara in the 80s and Y&R in the 90s. Any clips will do. It all just happened organically. SB is a better example because it's a show more about love, while Y&R is a show about grey IMO.

Cruz and Eden worked because A & Marcy worked. Hard. Very hard.

Joe & Kelly worked because they were beautiful and Robin was natural but every girl's dream to be back then.

Mason & Julia worked because Julia was the voice of every woman and Mason was the town drunk.

Mason & Mary worked because she was a saint, he a sinner, and they were magical.

CC & Sophia worked by the grace of Jed Allan & Judith McConnell because God only knows if a couple were never propped on SB, it was them.

Lionel & Augusta worked because Louise & Nicholas were two of a kind, symbiotic, and igniting something incredible in each other. 1990 Lionel/Augusta is BEYOND underrated.'

Keith & Gina worked because Robin Mattson and Justin Deas are two of the most fearless performers known to man and my goodness, what combustion they had together, how could they not? And because Justin Gocke was cute and, ok, propped em a little. But it was too honest to call it propping back then. Because he'd watched them fall in love and fell in love with the idea of them being in love and HOW COULDYA NOT?

And guess what? Alll those ones that didn't work and even a couple who did? They got fired when their contracts came up. And that's how we rolled. So sorry

Tori

Cain

Scott

Heather

Celeste

Lisa *I liked her

Sasha * her too

Greg

Emily

Laken 1 and 2 (I some Shell Danielson Laken)

Kelly 2

TJ

Jeffrey

Amy

Brick (liked ya)

Nick (boring, on second look)

Ric ( TOO HOT FOR TV)

Hollis

I could go on and on. The list of people SB fired is FAR longer than those they hired and kept around, if that even makes any sense, but it's true.

Jack being thrown under the bus for Phyllis and Nick twice really ticks me off.

Agreed. And Sharon's been trashed for them repeatedly as well.

Edited October 23, 201114 yr by Becki

GH: Jason and everyone

Agreed. And Sharon's been trashed for them repeatedly as well.

Trashed isn't even the word for Sharon.

Anytime your character's daughter dies & less than 6 months later your character is being written to have an "affair" to justify your character's husband's ridiculous relationship with the REAL town whore?

That's Diane/Drucilla/Victoria levels of character destruction.

sorry to start this, but crazy liasonite here. I can't believe no one said it yet, but Liz on GH has been torn to pieces to prop JASAM. Hell tptb tried to fire her. once one of the RARE good girls of PC, her character has been dragged thru the mud. Especially this week, anyone watching. Seriously Maxie standing in judgement. (who drugged Liz's husband in order to get him to sleep with her, than faked a pregnancy-really she's gonna judge. or Monica who raised a drunk and a hit man, she's gonna judge does anyone on gh realize they shouldn't be throwing stones.

I need a little help here. I was in a discussion elsewhere about a current soap couple and a non-fan spouted the argument that the couple cannot stand on their own -- that they have to be propped by other characters or couples to sustain a story. I always find this argument kind of silly because of course no pairing, no matter how popular or fabulous, can have a story that is only about the two of them. Stories generally cannot be told about two characters in isolation. And also triangles by virtue of the construction necessitates that in the end, a couple will emerge and one leg of the triangle will lose. So I never really get the difference between "propping" and just telling a story. I mean if a serial killer comes to town and targets one of the heroines who of course then must be rescued by the hero, is she being propped or are they just telling a story?

Anyway, I have been thinking about this and came to the conclusion that probably every popular/successful character or pairing has left a few bodies buried in their wake. I haven't watched a lot of soaps faithfully, but I still hear about fan wars surrounding particular pairings and wanted to see if some of the posters here could tell me of any characters that were "sacrificed" for those couples.

AMC

Zendall: Aiden is the one that comes to mind. I haven't watched AMC in years, but I recall friends of mine who do watch lamenting the destruction of Aiden's character to prop Zendall. Didn't he and Kendall sleep together while Zack and Greenlee were missing? Wasn't that the beginning of the end for the character?

Thanks in advance for your help.

LOL Rhino I think I was in the original discussion with you elsewhere! I don't think any couple has as many victims as Zen does. I like to use the "propping" term in regards to Zen, just b/c I've seen it from their contingent so often, it makes me smile to turn it back to the Zen bus.

I've always maintained the whole propping argument was "silly lame" b/c the made up "definition" constantly changes to suit the needs of the poster. And I laugh my ass off every time I'm told it means "to support that which cannot stand on it's own" YES as if we're discussing a table or chair ....so strange

Well..... I was just at that "elsewhere" site and noticed a HIGH number of post pertaining to Zen in a thread about character destruction. LOL Like nearly EVERY post contained "Zach, Zen, Kendall" There were so many I could not even quote them all ....I'll recap some here and I'll repost my post from "elsewhere"

Of course many brought up Josh being murdered by Zach......Aidan going crazy and kidnapping Kendall.....Edmund & Maria.....Dixie....Liza and poker Table Sex. ..... Reese and Bianca/ Gabby ..etc etc.......

So after seeing SO MANY mention Zen in regards to character destruction ........

*****

WOW WOW WOW!! Are we noticing a HEAVILY recurring theme??!?!? Zen ZEN Zen!! It's nice seeing it acknowledge by so many(too many for me to quote all) , it warms the cockles of my Zen hating heart! But alas makes me sad for the AMC I loved and adore .......for years character after character was destructed for Zen. Thus why I've said for YEARS Zen=DESTRUCTION!!!!!

Some victims of the Zen bus of destruction not mentioned would be .....All the victims of the Satin Slayer storyline. Poor Erin & Simone killed and the slew of other victims.

It's hard to even keep track of the sheer number of characters that had to somehow be made to hurt Zen in some way so Zach or Kendall could seek vengeance ...or characters that had to be made to do something OOC to further Zen story. (My definition of propping)

***********In Memoriam************

Hannah

Ethan

Edmund

Maria

Alexander Cambias Sr.

Dixie

Jr

Greenlee

Ryan

Adam

Stuart

Marion

Richie

Aidan

Annie

Emma

Josh

Bianca

Reese

David

Taylor

Liza

Griffin

and to all those I've missed......

So much destruction for Zen filler SHAME!