55 minutes ago, Vee said:

Because it is the only romantic story TG will allow. The last time someone tried otherwise (Ron) he brought the hammer down. I think if someone had actually pushed him again he might've respected it.

You know, there are ways to make Luke viable without being in a romance.  It's just Tony's idea to make Luke an awful person with no growth.  He retroactively cheats on Laura, drinks too much, goes off on adventures, and barely cares about his kids.  I really wish someone pushed back more on him.  TG left anyway.  It was worth a try.

8 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I really wish someone pushed back more on him.  TG left anyway.  It was worth a try.

I would have pushed back if I had been HW.  After all, what was the worst that he, the producer(s) or the network could have done to me?  Fire me?  Please.  Unlike some other hacks that I know, I have no problem with going back home and selling Amway for a living, lol.

And if TG had laid even one finger on me like he did on Richard Culliton (allegedly!), you better believe I would have sued his ass, too.  If I can survive a suicide attempt, I can survive an effeminate soap star with a bad perm.

Edited December 21, 20231 yr by Khan

30 minutes ago, Khan said:

And if TG had laid even one finger on me like he did on Richard Culliton (allegedly!), you better believe I would have sued his ass, too.  If I can survive a suicide attempt, I can survive an effeminate soap star with a bad perm.

The female EPs in particular put up with a lot back then. I think Tony was said to have thrown some furniture in those years - he may have even admitted it in an exit interview. James DePaiva allegedly threw a chair in Gottlieb's office.

35 minutes ago, Khan said:

I would have pushed back if I had been HW.  After all, what was the worst that he, the producer(s) or the network could have done to me?  Fire me?  Please.  Unlike some other hacks that I know, I have no problem with going back home and selling Amway for a living, lol.

And if TG had laid even one finger on me like he did on Richard Culliton (allegedly!), you better believe I would have sued his ass, too.  If I can survive a suicide attempt, I can survive an effeminate soap star with a bad perm.

Some of TG's behavior sounds abusive and awful.  Other actors seem to praise him, but I wonder if they are just towing the company line.  There is a difference between being passionate about the fictional character you play and actual violence.  Maybe it's easier all around on set for Tony to be gone.

Also, I hope you are doing much better these days!

4 minutes ago, Vee said:

The female EPs in particular put up with a lot back then. I think Tony was said to have thrown some furniture in those years - he may have even admitted it in an exit interview. James DePaiva allegedly threw a chair in Gottlieb's office.

None of this behavior should have ever been accepted.  I can't go into my work and start being violent and throwing things around lol.  That would be a quick way to relieve myself of a job.   The show might have been in a bit of a bind with Tony, but I think JDP could have been shown the door.

6 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Some of TG's behavior sounds abusive and awful.  Other actors seem to praise him, but I wonder if they are just towing the company line.

I do think it takes two in certain circumstances. If the old Martha Nochimson story about GH BTS from one of her books is true, Tony had good reason to have beef with Genie at one point during their comeback. I imagine GF deeply regrets things if that alleged account is accurate (which I am not going to repeat but is not hard to find if you google), as it was a sad product of the times in the '90s. But I also don't think that fully excuses what went on with Tony otherwise, or how he tanked story later on.

Edited December 22, 20231 yr by Vee

8 minutes ago, Vee said:

I do think it takes two in certain circumstances. If the old Martha Nochimson story about GH BTS from one of her books is true, Tony had good reason to have beef with Genie. I imagine GF deeply regrets things if that alleged account is accurate (which I am not going to repeat but is not hard to find if you google), as it was a product of the times in the '90s. But I also don't think that fully excuses what went on with Tony otherwise, or how he tanked story later on.

You know, I recently read someone put this in a different context. That both of them hated actual acting directions in the script, verbally told writers and Riche to stop it, and GF said something to the effect of knowing when it’s the right time for Laura to kiss Luke, or cry, not just because it’s scripted.

That could be entirely wrong, and we may never know the actual context of the refusal.

As far as push back- Tony didn’t like working for Riche, and in one of his exit interviews told a story about her basically saying she was saving a spot on the wall for his balls, and him telling her that wasn’t going to happen. So obviously she didn’t take it as much as others did. And physical violence or not, Culliton wasn’t good at GH when it was his stories alone.

Edited December 22, 20231 yr by titan1978

2 hours ago, titan1978 said:

Making it a seduction instead of what viewers saw play out was the problem that the show has wrestled with since.

I agree.

Here is what I have been able to surmise: Douglas Marland planned for Luke to provide an obstacle between Scotty and Laura.  Did that obstacle include sexual assault?  Possibly.  In one print interview that I have read, Marland revealed that, in his original projections, Luke's was supposed to have been a "tragic" story.  It is possible, therefore, that Marland's plan was to have Luke assault Laura and then be killed sometime thereafter by Frank Smith's henchmen.

Of course, as we all know by now, Gloria Monty altered those plans once she saw the chemistry between TG and GF.  As I've said before, she allowed the rape to go on as planned, but instead of killing off Luke, Roy DiLucca met his demise and Luke and Laura were eventually paired off for their first "on the run" story, which was the beginning of the whole L&L phenomenon.

Now, I think - and as always, this is just what I think - Monty, in tandem with Pat Falken Smith, hoped that the incident between Luke and Laura at the Campus Disco would be more ambiguous than it actually appeared on television.  Laura loved Scotty too much to give herself willingly to another man - especially so soon after their wedding - but Luke still needed to provide that obstacle for her and Scotty in order to move their story forward.  Laura would go through with reporting her rape to the police, attending therapy sessions, etc., but the question would linger: Was it really rape?

Unfortunately, when you watch the sequence of events, there is no denying what occurred: it was rape, pure and simple.  If the show's goal was ambiguity on the matter, then the writing, direction and editing of the actual incident blew that goal to proverbial kingdom come. 

Realizing the error in judgement that they had made, and fearing the inevitable backlash that would arise even back then from certain groups, that is when Monty and her team resolved to label the rape as a "seduction" instead, in the hopes of sidestepping what would have been some very pointed questions (which GH was able to do without much difficulty until '98).

In no way do I condone sexual assault as a means to seduction or to courtship.  I maintain that the best way to have handled that situation would have been either to go through with the original plan (Luke rapes Laura; Luke dies) or to leave the rape out entirely.  (An illicit kiss between Luke and Laura could have accomplished the same goal of driving a wedge between her and Scotty).  So, as much as I respect that millions of viewers fell in love with watching Luke and Laura fall in love, and as much as I believe that TG and GF share a unique chemistry that neither will ever be able to replicate with anyone else, I also am convinced that the fallout from Liz's rape rang, or rang again, a bell that cannot be unrung. 

To put it simply: no amount of work that any HW puts into redeeming Luke and reuniting him and Laura, either now or in the future, will ever leave less than a sour taste in my mouth.  GH made a mess by allowing the rape to happen, and then they made an even bigger mess when they decided to re-address it nineteen years after the fact.  Hoping that it still could end someday with the two riding off into the sunset together is...just...wrong.

 

38 minutes ago, Vee said:

The female EPs in particular put up with a lot back then. I think Tony was said to have thrown some furniture in those years - he may have even admitted it in an exit interview. James DePaiva allegedly threw a chair in Gottlieb's office.

I [!@#$%^&*] love what "Grace Under Fire"'s last EP, Tom Straw, allegedly told Brett Butler after she threw a Coke can toward his head: "Pull it together, we have a show to do - and by the way, you missed."

50 minutes ago, Vee said:

James DePaiva allegedly threw a chair in Gottlieb's office.

Yeah, I thought the Max/Luna relationship was dumb, too.

41 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Some of TG's behavior sounds abusive and awful.  Other actors seem to praise him, but I wonder if they are just towing the company line.  There is a difference between being passionate about the fictional character you play and actual violence.  Maybe it's easier all around on set for Tony to be gone.

The thing is, if not for "sparking" with GF, Luke and TG would have been history after 1979; and instead of spending his final days as a multiple Emmy-winning actor in his beloved Amsterdam, he would be wasting away as yet another, former "character actor" from a bunch of old TV shows at some home in Pasadena.  GF saved his fugly, scrawny ass from obscurity and dinner theaters.

43 minutes ago, Vee said:

If the old Martha Nochimson story about GH BTS from one of her books is true, Tony had good reason to have beef with Genie at one point during their comeback.

You will have to DM me, @Vee, because I am Googling and coming up empty-handed.

40 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

So obviously she didn’t take it as much as others did. 

Good for Ms. Riche.

10 minutes ago, Khan said:

Now, I think - and as always, this is just what I think - Monty, in tandem with Pat Falken Smith, hoped that the incident between Luke and Laura at the Campus Disco would be more ambiguous than it actually appeared on television. 

Douglas Marland was 100% against the rebranding of the rape as a seduction & quit over it. 

Pat Falken Smith was 100% against the rebranding of the rape as a seduction but as the sole support of her teenage daughter she did not feel that she could quit over it. She needed the paycheck. So, she stayed & went along with the company line, uncomfortable lying but it was the position she was in. 

No one knows if someone above Monty's level was involved in the decision to rebrand as a seduction. It is possible it was entirely on her, but not necessarily so.      

I know this from extensive research, including but not limited to talking to a soap journo who talked to Pat Falken Smith at the time. If this information helps inform a tiny bit of this big issue, all to the good. 

1 hour ago, Vee said:

I do think it takes two in certain circumstances. If the old Martha Nochimson story about GH BTS from one of her books is true, Tony had good reason to have beef with Genie at one point during their comeback. I imagine GF deeply regrets things if that alleged account is accurate (which I am not going to repeat but is not hard to find if you google), as it was a sad product of the times in the '90s. But I also don't think that fully excuses what went on with Tony otherwise, or how he tanked story later on.

Well, yes, that's true.  I have also heard the concerns came more from Genie's husband than herself, but that doesn't make it much better since she's still married to him.  It seems like TG/GF worked it out enough to at least be cordial and act together though.

37 minutes ago, Khan said:

The thing is, if not for "sparking" with GF, Luke and TG would have been history after 1979; and instead of spending his final days as a multiple Emmy-winning actor in his beloved Amsterdam, he would be wasting away as yet another, former "character actor" from a bunch of old TV shows at some home in Pasadena.  GF saved his fugly, scrawny ass from obscurity and dinner theaters.

You will have to DM me, @Vee, because I am Googling and coming up empty-handed.

Good for Ms. Riche.

Even if Tony hates daytime there is a reason he didn't hit it big-and it's not because he's too identifiable as Luke.  I understand it must be frustrating to be boxed into one single role, but I also think he got a ton out of that one role so he can stop complaining.

11 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I understand it must be frustrating to be boxed into one single role, but I also think he got a ton out of that one role so he can stop complaining.

I am sure even TG would not want the headlines to read: "Anthony Geary, Who Once Co-Starred With Fat Boys In 'Disorderlies,' Dies At Age --."

Edited December 22, 20231 yr by Khan

11 minutes ago, Khan said:

I am sure even TG would not want the headlines to read: "Anthony Geary, Who Once Co-Starred With Fat Boys In 'Disorderlies,' Dies At Age --."

It's sad he couldn't come around and embrace the situation.  He was employed very well for years past getting any other roles.  Even men with huge egos like MB and SBu who tried and mostly failed outside of soaps have come to accept that's how they are going to pay the bills and they will be big fish in a small pond.  I guess he can be resentful in Amsterdam next to his 20 emmys.

37 minutes ago, carolineg said:

It's sad he couldn't come around and embrace the situation.  He was employed very well for years past getting any other roles.  Even men with huge egos like MB and SBu who tried and mostly failed outside of soaps have come to accept that's how they are going to pay the bills and they will be big fish in a small pond.  I guess he can be resentful in Amsterdam next to his 20 emmys.

Everything I've heard, which is precious little, is that he's not bitter at all. Quite happy with his life. Of course he'd say that no matter what, wouldn't he? 😎😶😉😂

12 hours ago, carolineg said:

It's sad he couldn't come around and embrace the situation.  He was employed very well for years past getting any other roles.  Even men with huge egos like MB and SBu who tried and mostly failed outside of soaps have come to accept that's how they are going to pay the bills and they will be big fish in a small pond.  I guess he can be resentful in Amsterdam next to his 20 emmys.

The truth is they needed a new dynamic, he wasn’t wrong about that. Genie wanted Laura to grow up too. So I do understand not wanting to just keep replaying the same things they had been doing for years. And even though we dislike his stated opinions about the pairing and his version of Luke, I never got the idea that he resented his co-workers or the show when he came back.  And Luke without Laura would be darker. What he seems to resent were the people that wanted him to be 1981 forever.

For as much as he hated the idea of Luke as a family man, nobody can deny he had a genuine onscreen connection with JJ and Bergman’s Lulu. And by all accounts the actors enjoy working with him, he’s bitchy and funny.

If anything, I think he stayed too long. He should have left before he did, and probably didn’t because all of them assumed the show was going to end. Frank and Ron, for all their faults, did save the show.

I think Maurice acts a lot like Tony did when the whole anti-Luke/Laura stuff started. He needs to make a decision soon too.

I am of the opinion that Genie should have been given equal status with him in all areas, even as far back as the first run when they took off. He does his best work with her because she grounds him. Left to his own devices and energies, he can go very big. I like both characters, but I like Laura more.

If only I was even remotely as interested in the show right now. I hardly post anymore because why complain about something others are enjoying. I can only say it was nice to see (fill in the blank beloved character) today, or stop being such a wimp Valentine!

14 hours ago, carolineg said:

It's sad he couldn't come around and embrace the situation. 

I agree.

@Vee said it a long time ago: TG never could get over the fact that Bill Eckert failed, even after 1250 character resets.  He resented that he had to go back to playing Luke, so he did whatever he could to sabotage the character and his relationships with everyone, shitting on viewers' memories and goodwill toward him in the process.  AFAIC, I am fine with Luke remaining dead and buried.