1 minute ago, Khan said:

That's due in large part to Eric Braeden, whose Victor Newman has always scored well, both with men and with "urban" audiences. He's basically their wish fulfillment: an s.o.b., who has enough money to tell whoever to go f**k themselves.

Amazing! But I think you're right (even though he's always been a reason--with all respect to Eric--I've never been a fan.)

1 minute ago, EricMontreal22 said:

The timeslot might have helped (lunch for a lot of people.) I know people on here will disagree with me, but I think AMC at the time also did things like incorporate social issues (Vietnam remained a constant until at least 1974 judging from scripts) and stronger male characters than a lot of soaps had--or more complex. I do have a note from the Nixon archives that with OLTL (and presumably AMC) she does NOT want organ music, and I assume that would make younger viewer, male and female, not associate the show with their parents soap. (Of course ABC had already done this with Dark Shadows but that's a special case.)

This is just a guess, but I also assume it looked more "realistic" than the Hollywood look Y&R had (though hasn't Y&R also been known to have a pretty strong male demo over the years?)

Yes, although I've always heard that The Edge of Night, Dark Shadows and All My Children did the best with male viewers.

2 minutes ago, EricMontreal22 said:

I think these are great points (even as I admit I will never understand what appeals to straight men ;) )

They do seem to exist in an alternative universe, LOL!

8 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

Pffft!

DAYS was on fire when it went to an hour, and William J. Bell and head writer Pat Falken Smith wrote is beautifully.

Was Nixon's comment ever explained?

But Bell basically was only overseeing DAYS at that point, right--a contractual obligation? (Not to say his influence wasn't felt.)

I think Nixon would have never made such a comment in public. She had a lot of respect for Bell. If you've read All Her Children, there's an interview where her daughter tells Nixon that she thinks someone is stealing her storylines (it's obviously Bell at Y&R) and she says that they tell their stories very differently.

One thing I do love about the Bell soaps and the Nixon soaps, at least at their core, is that they seemed to take two different aspects of Irna Phillips (their shared mentor) and her approach to soap, and went with them. Which is simplistic, of course--Agnes Nixon's Guiding Light is very heavy on melodrama, etc but.

25 minutes ago, EricMontreal22 said:

there is a note that they "don't want to do what Days of Our Lives did"

Could that be referring to the production side of things where Days attempted to tape it as they had the 30 min format and that lead to all sorts of problems? Wes Kenney came in and changed things to make it easier on staff and actors.

I know when AMC did that special week the hours were long and unsustainable long term.

Just now, EricMontreal22 said:

But Bell basically was only overseeing DAYS at that point, right--a contractual obligation? (Not to say his influence wasn't felt.)

According to an interview I have from that time, Bell said he drew up the extensive bible for the year, with assistance from Pat Falken Smith, and then she took the writing from there. So while he was in a supervisory position, he did seem to have a large hand in the overall storyline creation. Smith admitted she questioned his choices sometimes, but she played them out, nevertheless.

When Ann Marcus took over as head writer, she said that Bell would present her with his bible, but she would, "change it as I saw fit." (The writing went to hell at that point.)

Just now, EricMontreal22 said:

I think Nixon would have never made such a comment in public. She had a lot of respect for Bell. If you've read All Her Children, there's an interview where her daughter tells Nixon that she thinks someone is stealing her storylines (it's obviously Bell at Y&R) and she says that they tell their stories very differently.

I remember, yes! Nixon explained that Bell's work was too "unrelieved in its tragedy," whereas she loved having bits of levity and humor thrown into her shows.

Just now, EricMontreal22 said:

One thing I do love about the Bell soaps and the Nixon soaps, at least at their core, is that they seemed to take two different aspects of Irna Phillips (their shared mentor) and her approach to soap, and went with them. Which is simplistic, of course--Agnes Nixon's Guiding Light is very heavy on melodrama, etc but.

ITA.

2 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

I remember, yes! Nixon explained that Bell's work was too "unrelieved in its tragedy," whereas she loved having bits of levity and humor thrown into her shows.

I wonder if AMC taking off in the early '80s is one of the reasons Bell started introducing comedy elements to Y&R like Douglas and Boobsie.

1 minute ago, DRW50 said:

I wonder if AMC taking off in the early '80s is one of the reasons Bell started introducing comedy elements to Y&R like Douglas and Boobsie.

It could be. Success breeds imitation, and Y&R struggled when it first went to an hour.

I always appreciated both forms of storytelling: Nixon's slice-of-life drama with levity thrown in, and Bell's haunting, romanticized heartbreak material.

Different soaps had different identities back in the day, which kept them unique and interesting.

26 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

It could be. Success breeds imitation, and Y&R struggled when it first went to an hour.

I always appreciated both forms of storytelling: Nixon's slice-of-life drama with levity thrown in, and Bell's haunting, romanticized heartbreak material.

Different soaps had different identities back in the day, which kept them unique and interesting.

Amen. I don't understand why by the 1990s this seemed to be lost (I guess unless you have soap parody with Passions.)