This is an episode from 1983 and a clip from about a week later that were on Youtube a few years ago but I couldn't find them now (if I missed them my apologies). I'm not completely sure about the dates but they were what was on the files. 

 

7 hours ago, DRW50 said:

This is an episode from 1983 and a clip from about a week later that were on Youtube a few years ago but I couldn't find them now (if I missed them my apologies). I'm not completely sure about the dates but they were what was on the files. 

 

Lisa in her annoying fluttery jittery phase...between her and Meg Ryan's Betsy.... Poor Chris..just..standing there like an extra that no one interacts with.

Those 1983 episodes (if dated correctly) look to be near the end of the Dobson's second head-writing stint.  While their work on ATWT isn't as good as GL (and I feel the same way about Marland's work on GL vs ATWT)... there were a few things that the Dobson's did on this show that I liked.  I'm guessing this was before Eileen Fulton left the show for several months and was recast with another actress that acted somewhat like Lisa.. but wasn't our Lisa.

- Maggie and Margo are Dobson creations... flawed, neurotic, heart in the right place, and their own worst enemy.

- Tom/Margo were a good couple and creation

- James Steinbeck wasn't such a cartoon like he became later during the Marland era and after.

- Steve/Betsy as played by Frank R and Meg R really had chemistry.

- Miranda/Bob... I feel weird for saying this, but I actually don't mind them together as a couple though his true love was Kim.

2 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Those 1983 episodes (if dated correctly) look to be near the end of the Dobson's second head-writing stint.  While their work on ATWT isn't as good as GL (and I feel the same way about Marland's work on GL vs ATWT)... there were a few things that the Dobson's did on this show that I liked.  I'm guessing this was before Eileen Fulton left the show for several months and was recast with another actress that acted somewhat like Lisa.. but wasn't our Lisa.

They aren't..these were from November and we had Dee's murder trail etc.  These were actually good stories but again, they ripped out the core and it just didn't have that ATWT feeling (poor DM was put on recurring at this time and then he just disappeared before Tom and Margos wedding and when Marland brought him back)  Fulton leaves in the spring, and she is gone for over a year I think, 

5 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

They aren't..these were from November and we had Dee's murder trail etc.  These were actually good stories but again, they ripped out the core and it just didn't have that ATWT feeling (poor DM was put on recurring at this time and then he just disappeared before Tom and Margos wedding and when Marland brought him back)  Fulton leaves in the spring, and she is gone for over a year I think, 

I was never a fan of the Dobson's work on ATWT, but I had been crazy about GL while they were in charge in Springfield. Their work on GL was very character driven, while still providing strong plots -- the perfect combination, really.  On ATWT, I thought the Dobsons' storylines were acceptable, but I have never understood why they chose to "rip out the core" (to use your words) at ATWT, when on Guiding Light they had used the established "core" in such wonderful ways.   For example, why did they get rid of (or minimize -- whatever term is best) Chris and Nancy, when they did not do the same with Bert Bauer, Steve Jackson, Sarah McIntyre, etc. on Guiding Light?   There are ways to update and modernize a soap opera without tossing aside profoundly important legacy characters.   I enjoyed the way the Dobsons wrote for the second and third generations of ATWT's legacy -- plenty of storylines for Bob, Lisa, Kim, John, Ellen, David, and Tom, Dee, etc. But when Chris and Nancy all but disappeared, many long-term fans just could not see anything positive in that.  So anything else the Dobsons did was almost muted by the alienation of so many long-term viewers.   

Edited October 12Oct 12 by Tisy-Lish

@DRW50@Soapsuds was it just me or did Don Hastings start to mention that Eileen wasn't handled very well toward the end of ATWT? I know he also mentioned that Eileen was so talented but had been mishandled by people during her career but I also think he started to talk about the way she was treated toward the end of the series when he was interrupted.

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

@DRW50@Soapsuds was it just me or did Don Hastings start to mention that Eileen wasn't handled very well toward the end of ATWT? I know he also mentioned that Eileen was so talented but had been mishandled by people during her career but I also think he started to talk about the way she was treated toward the end of the series when he was interrupted.

It does seem like he was going to say more if given the chance. 

Watching some of that again made me realize it was Hillary, not Ellen, who told the story of Scott Holmes working in Charleston - she said that a friend of hers was on a tour there and recognized him. 

Another neat little story I had not fully heard on first watch is that Barbara was one of the only ATWT characters Hillary knew before joining the show because a friend of hers was a big fan of Barbara. And that friend was Dick Wolf's first wife. 

Edited October 12Oct 12 by DRW50

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

@DRW50@Soapsuds was it just me or did Don Hastings start to mention that Eileen wasn't handled very well toward the end of ATWT? I know he also mentioned that Eileen was so talented but had been mishandled by people during her career but I also think he started to talk about the way she was treated toward the end of the series when he was interrupted.

I didn't get that Don was talking about the later years at all. I think he was saying that she could have been a movie star but was mishandled in the beginning of her career. That was just my take on it. I'm sure he would have said that she was mishandled at the end because that was evident to everybody. But I think he was just talking about how she should have been a movie star. 

16 hours ago, Tisy-Lish said:

I enjoyed the way the Dobsons wrote for the second and third generations of ATWT's legacy -- plenty of storylines for Bob, Lisa, Kim, John, Ellen, David, and Tom, Dee, etc. But when Chris and Nancy all but disappeared, many long-term fans just could not see anything positive in that.  So anything else the Dobsons did was almost muted by the alienation of so many long-term viewers.   

Agreed...I really liked their GL (what I could remember of it) and kept the traditions there that Long kind of got rid of (the Christmas Eve kids party at Cedars..Mike singing there..the Bauers as the center...) but really ignored the Hughes (to be fair, they really used the Stewarts..) I don't take the argument that it was TPTB totally, as good old Bridget didn't let anyone strong arm her.  

Maybe Nancy was a hard matriarch to write for after the warm Bert? Maybe a long time married core couple was hard for them? I think they didn't want to write for ATWT and didn't care until the second time around, which was better.

It was so cool to see Hastings on the Locher show, as soon as he had the Bob smile it was like, "Everything is okay." just like watching the show. I actually loved Dolan's personality and which they had infused some of that humor is her dour Margo...Hillary looks GREAT but she is my fave Margo...Marx's voice is sex on a stick still...and Zenk looks ageless as always.  I didn't notice any tension between Zenk and Smith but probably years have gone by enough ( though when Zenk mentioned Fulton supporting her through problems and men, Smith had a knowing smirk...) I liked that Smith I think said that the shows family feeling behind the scenes was a great experience. 

I do love that Smith, or was it Dolan said that Wagner and Fulton kind of had some pushing up against each other (no wonder Wagner was always so good with those "Now Lisa DEAR! " admonitions!) From all reports Wagner was a bit "Nancyish" and Fulton seemed to share Lisa's impish sense of humor so I can see it, I wish they had followed up on it.

I'll be honest, the core of ATWT has always been a little cold and stodgy.  It worked well until ABC exploded with their more youthful and exciting lineup of daytime in the late 70s/early 80s that threw the rest of the soaps for a loop.

Also, ATWT had a lot more damage that needed to be repaired vs Guiding Light when they took over.  I think I read somewhere that it took 18 months of head-writing GL before they felt confident about the shape and direction of the show... and they weren't given that amount of time.. only a little over a year at ATWT before they were gone.

Also, just because you're a talented head-writer/writing team doesn't mean you're an instant fit on a soap opera.  Marland was a natural fit on ATWT & GH, while he coasted off of the Dobson's the first year of his tenue at GL before it appeared to be not as interesting by 1982.

Wasn't there some gossip in 81 that the Dobsons left (not fired) before the 81 writers' strike because they wouldn't turn in long term story to P&G to be used during the strike? In any event, they were brought back later to finish, I think, their original contract. We know the Dobsons were not easy people to work with as we saw with Santa Barbara.  Re: Chris/Nancy - we don't know what condition DM was in at the point he was released and Helen had a reputation for being grand dame; perhaps, P&G had had enough and/or I can imagine she hated the Dobson's vision and story execution for the show. 

On 10/12/2025 at 4:47 PM, Soaplovers said:

Also, ATWT had a lot more damage that needed to be repaired vs Guiding Light when they took over.  I think I read somewhere that it took 18 months of head-writing GL before they felt confident about the shape and direction of the show... and they weren't given that amount of time.. only a little over a year at ATWT before they were gone.

ATWT was in pretty good shape when they took over...really in term of the core being in place. Yes, they needed to offload some of the cast..half of them were middle aged lawyers I couldn't tell one from the other. And while I think Tom Tammi is hot...he did play Tom as almost a middle aged uptight guy..I can see why they wanted to reinvent Tom a bit.  It was the warmed over stories that they used and how they started off integrating the new characters with the old (Nick with Kim, Lyla with Bob etc) its like they ran out of interest.  What did Nancy think of Lyla and her two rebellious daughters who would be part of the family soon..we don't know...did Lyla have many scenes with Nancy and Chris? The set up to Margo having an affair with Bob's stepdaughters husband was good, but Bob was quickly taken out of that mix.

Agreed that ATWT was cold compared to GL (while I always loved GL, messy as it was better) but they really distanced everyone from each other.  

Wagner said that as soon as Don was taken off contract he started to fail...I remember him having scenes after she left and he was fine...also, look how well the show did when they brought him back..he had few scenes and lines, but he was there and he was respected and the way the cast looked protective over him (implied that the characters knew he was failing ) added texture warmth and reality to the show.

10 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

ATWT was in pretty good shape when they took over...really in term of the core being in place. Yes, they needed to offload some of the cast..half of them were middle aged lawyers I couldn't tell one from the other. And while I think Tom Tammi is hot...he did play Tom as almost a middle aged uptight guy..I can see why they wanted to reinvent Tom a bit.  It was the warmed over stories that they used and how they started off integrating the new characters with the old (Nick with Kim, Lyla with Bob etc) its like they ran out of interest.  What did Nancy think of Lyla and her two rebellious daughters who would be part of the family soon..we don't know...did Lyla have many scenes with Nancy and Chris? The set up to Margo having an affair with Bob's stepdaughters husband was good, but Bob was quickly taken out of that mix.

Agreed that ATWT was cold compared to GL (while I always loved GL, messy as it was better) but they really distanced everyone from each other.  

Wagner said that as soon as Don was taken off contract he started to fail...I remember him having scenes after she left and he was fine...also, look how well the show did when they brought him back..he had few scenes and lines, but he was there and he was respected and the way the cast looked protective over him (implied that the characters knew he was failing ) added texture warmth and reality to the show.

ATWT's main issue, aside from having too many dreary people in the same fortysomething age group, is how dull it felt. They also had the dreariest younger set I've seen on a soap of that era, and they killed off the one (Melinda) who had a pulse. They just needed fresh blood rather than dumping core characters or throwing ill-advised love interests at Kim and Bob.

We did get fresh blood with Tom, Margo, Karen (I don't know if the Dobsons created her or not) and Craig (although I think it took years for them to figure out to properly utilize him), but the show itself still felt extremely stilted until about 1984 or 1985. 

I was very impressed with how the show used Chris in the July 4th, 1985, episode - his scenes with Andy were lovely. Don didn't seem as clearly sick as he was by the end of 1985 and early 1986.

Edited October 23Oct 23 by DRW50

When watching the first episodes that the Dobson's wrote for ATWT, the quality was ok... but the lighting/energy was just so old and stale compared to the freshness of the ABC soaps and Guiding Light/Y & R,

I noticed by summer 1980 that there was a bit more life to the show with the introduction of Cricket and Margo with Margo eventually becoming the third wheel to Barbara/James while Cricket served as an early rival to Betsy (with Kim being a bit judgmental toward Cricket in the summer 1980 episodes I watched).

I could see why Don/Mary were eventually written off.. and Joyce kept on a bit longer since she was the only spark plug the show had pre-1980 though she's much more muted in the Dobson era episodes.

I can also see early on that the Dobson's seemed more drawn to writing for the Stewarts with Dee and Annie having focus along with David and Ellen plus Betsy.. while the Hughes family didn't seem to get as much focus other than Bob.

10 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

ATWT was in pretty good shape when they took over...really in term of the core being in place. Yes, they needed to offload some of the cast..half of them were middle aged lawyers I couldn't tell one from the other. And while I think Tom Tammi is hot...he did play Tom as almost a middle aged uptight guy..I can see why they wanted to reinvent Tom a bit.  It was the warmed over stories that they used and how they started off integrating the new characters with the old (Nick with Kim, Lyla with Bob etc) its like they ran out of interest.  What did Nancy think of Lyla and her two rebellious daughters who would be part of the family soon..we don't know...did Lyla have many scenes with Nancy and Chris? The set up to Margo having an affair with Bob's stepdaughters husband was good, but Bob was quickly taken out of that mix.

Agreed that ATWT was cold compared to GL (while I always loved GL, messy as it was better) but they really distanced everyone from each other.  

Wagner said that as soon as Don was taken off contract he started to fail...I remember him having scenes after she left and he was fine...also, look how well the show did when they brought him back..he had few scenes and lines, but he was there and he was respected and the way the cast looked protective over him (implied that the characters knew he was failing ) added texture warmth and reality to the show.

Love your comments.  

Marland's first 4th of July episode in Bob and Kim's backyard was certainly a tribute to Don MacLaughlin.  And yes, the cast did protect Don -- as he was featured with members of the family, but he easily handed-off lines to Don Hastings and others, when he seemed to need a break. And each of the other actors picked right-up, and carried on.  

And  later, Chris had rather lengthy poignant scenes with both David Stewart and Andy Dixon, in which MacLaughlin never missed a beat. My goodness, that was a GREAT episode of ATWT.