I thought I'd open since it's been a week. It still doesn't seem real.

It's ironic that the ratings for atwt started dropping after the week of the episode provided by @DRW50. The ratings never recovered until FMB became EP. It's unfortunate that she made two costly mistakes and LB writing became stale which led to falling ratings again.

Richard Culliton was HW at the time.  He started off well in 95 but his stories fizzled too.

2 minutes ago, TVFAN1144 said:

They shoved the Kasnofs down our throats during this time period although I liked Sean Christian

was this also when they did that silly thing about Carly’s inheritance depending on pregnancy?   Sorry I tuned out at that point so details are sketchy 

That was FMB/Broderick (1998/1999).

7 minutes ago, TVFAN1144 said:

They shoved the Kasnofs down our throats during this time period although I liked Sean Christian

was this also when they did that silly thing about Carly’s inheritance depending on pregnancy?   Sorry I tuned out at that point so details are sketchy 

I never understood why Carly and Rosanna fought over Mike. He was no prize. That story never moved the needle ratings wise. I would've dumped it rather quickly.

I'm not familiar with As the World Turns before the Marland years, but did they do a better job with 1980s trends compared to their CBS P&G sister GL?

Dallas influence - James Stenbeck introduced as the new villain. In the JR Ewing and His Copies thread, James Stenbeck was not mentioned so maybe he wasn't cut from the JR mold.

Dynasty influence - wealthy widow Lucinda Walsh runs her late husband's business

Supercouples - Holden/Lily during the Marland years, not sure who would fit before the Marland years.

Action/adventure - not sure what would apply here

 

On 1/2/2023 at 7:50 PM, Soapsuds said:

I never understood why Carly and Rosanna fought over Mike. He was no prize. That story never moved the needle ratings wise. I would've dumped it rather quickly.

^

This.

 

Carly (early on) struck me as someone who would've wanted a man with some status and money behind his name. I got her initially wanting Mike to do one on Rosanna, but after Carly bedded him, she should've easily moved onto her next conquest while dangling the affair over Mike's head until he spilled the beans himself. 

 

Carly and Molly, who came from poor backgrounds really strayed from the soap vixen role, which was typically to marry up. Instead, it seemed like they settled for the lower or middle class men just to p*ss off their heiress rivals. 

2 hours ago, kalbir said:

I'm not familiar with As the World Turns before the Marland years, but did they do a better job with 1980s trends compared to their CBS P&G sister GL?

Dallas influence - James Stenbeck introduced as the new villain. In the JR Ewing and His Copies thread, James Stenbeck was not mentioned so maybe he wasn't cut from the JR mold.

Dynasty influence - wealthy widow Lucinda Walsh runs her late husband's business

Supercouples - Holden/Lily during the Marland years, not sure who would fit before the Marland years.

Action/adventure - not sure what would apply here

 

Supercouples Steve and Betsy, early Tom and Margo

Action/adventure Tom/Margo and Mr Big

Dallas/Dynasty-dysfunctional wealthy family-The McColls.

3 hours ago, NothinButAttitude said:

^

This.

Carly (early on) struck me as someone who would've wanted a man with some status and money behind his name. I got her initially wanting Mike to do one on Rosanna, but after Carly bedded him, she should've easily moved onto her next conquest while dangling the affair over Mike's head until he spilled the beans himself. 

Carly and Molly, who came from poor backgrounds really strayed from the soap vixen role, which was typically to marry up. Instead, it seemed like they settled for the lower or middle class men just to p*ss off their heiress rivals. 

I think Maura West's pregnancy and decision to leave closed most of those chapters for Carly in her first run. If she had stayed I think they may have paired her with Scott, who wasn't rich, but was also consumed with financial schemes. 

When Carly returned, they did try to paint her as going after money, and even tried to set up her endgame as being with another schemer (Brad #3), but the stories were just poorly told, unpleasant, and the attempts at contrasting her with a "good" girl didn't work because Maura West blew Annie Parisse out of the water. 

Molly was a case of casting an actress who was just not suited for the types of stories you mention. Lesli Kay was too fragile and broken to ever play a vixen. 

All I'll say is that when I first took a real look at ATWT as a teen in the late '90s (I had vague memories of the '80s years my babysitter watched as well as of classic Y&R, but I got invested via the ABC soaps around '93), the show was nothing but weird men lusting after Ellen Dolan's Margo who was presented as a love goddess (and I like Dolan now but I'm sorry, she was not that) and scene after scene of Carly and Molly, usually together. They looked exactly the same with these severe lesbian haircuts except for their hair color. They behaved exactly the same. They were constantly 'you go girl!'ing each other or high-fiving and complaining about everyone else. They were a matching set. I was bored to tears by both of them and could not understand their purpose.

It took me years to take interest in either Maura or Lesli Kay after that.

Edited January 4, 20232 yr by Vee

Conrad Fowkes ad.

 

A few days late but thanks for the tag @DRW50!
 

As far as the Tom and Margo scenes go this is the beginning of Margo’s PTSD which basically we would end up seeing Margo act crazy for the next two, three years or so.

Cullinton had a strong 1995, I wonder why it fizzled and he was let go. What gets me is why P&G even hired Stern & Black. Having rewatched Falcon Crest sure their early work was alright, but their returned to write and produce the show’s Season 8 (1988-89) was an unmitigated disaster, and history would repeat itself in 1996 

 

On 1/2/2023 at 1:40 PM, Sapounopera said:

Was FMB really that bad? I know all about Susan Batten (and losing Lucinda after a stupid story with James?) but episodes from that era seem watchable to me. I hate the generic young couples, but all soaps are guilty of that. I even preferred her ABC aesthetics to Goutman's. 

Denise was a very intriguing character who was gone once the next regime tried to turn ATWT into Days. 

Might be a controversial opinion but at the time I actually preferred Sheffer’s ATWT at least 2000-2003 to what occurred in the FMB era and at least under Goutman/Laiman. 1997 started of promising but ended up almost as bad as 1996, and 1998-99 was sloppy. As much as I enjoyed Molly later on, those first couple years were rough as she was literally everywhere roaming the show aimlessly, even dating Andy at one point. The less said about Julia and Katie during these years the better. 

@Vee mentioned haircuts during the FMB era, I will have to say at one point West and KMH seemed to have the exact same hair cut as well at the height of the scheming as well I had to to a double take a couple of times. Maybe that was someone’s idolized idea of an vixen?

At least in first couple of Sheffer years at least was highly entertained compared to Lethal Laiman’s tenure, it really wasn’t was until the rapes of Jack and Jessica I found myself feeling offended by Hogan.

Edited January 6, 20232 yr by soapfan770

8 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

A few days late but thanks for the tag @DRW50!
 

As far as the Tom and Margo scenes go this is the beginning of Margo’s PTSD which basically we would end up seeing Margo act crazy for the next two, three years or so.

Cullinton had a strong 1995, I wonder why it fizzled and he was let go. What gets me is why P&G even hired Stern & Black. Having rewatched Falcon Crest sure their early work was alright, but their returned to write and produce the show’s Season 8 (1988-89) was an unmitigated disaster, and history would repeat itself in 1996 

 

Might be a controversial opinion but at the time I actually preferred Sheffer’s ATWT at least 2000-2003 to what occurred in the FMB era and at least under Goutman/Laiman. 1997 started of promising but ended up almost as bad as 1996, and 1998-99 was sloppy. As much as I enjoyed Molly later on, those first couple years were rough as she was literally everywhere roaming the show aimlessly, even dating Andy at one point. The less said about Julia and Katie during these years the better. 

@Vee mentioned haircuts during the FMB era, I will have to say at one point West and KMH seemed to have the exact same hair cut as well at the height of the scheming as well I had to to a double take a couple of times. Maybe that was someone’s idolized idea of an vixen?

At least in first couple of Sheffer years at least was highly entertained compared to Lethal Laiman’s tenure, it really wasn’t was until the rapes of Jack and Jessica I found myself feeling offended by Hogan.

I still mourn the fact that Clare Labine was offered the ATWT HW position in 1996, but instead chose to pursue a new show pitch that she hoped would see fruition (it didn't).  Think of the possibilities!  She would have been the perfect fit.

9 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

What gets me is why P&G even hired Stern & Black. Having rewatched Falcon Crest sure their early work was alright, but their returned to write and produce the show’s Season 8 (1988-89) was an unmitigated disaster, and history would

two words: les moonves! confirmed to me by lucy johnson, then cbs daytime vp.

Edited January 6, 20232 yr by wonderwoman1951

 

9 hours ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

two words: les moonves! confirmed to me by lucy johnson, then cbs daytime vp.

Not surprised at all if that’s the case as he would have known them from his Lorimar days and with the duo fresh off their USA/Playboy channel show it perfectly fit in with what CBS was trying to do to its entire network at the time. 
 
The following year the show made the same mistake again by the hiring 90210’s Jessica Klein, who was just as bad as Stern & Black. 
 

With a good EP (and an easing on micromanagement) Labine may have done well at ATWT. I hated what became of her GL tenure. 

Allyson Rice(Connor Walsh) will be on The Locher Room on Friday January 13th to discuss her latest book.

 

Edited January 7, 20232 yr by Soapsuds