HBO: Game of Thrones

[Vee]

I feel a kind of sympathy and understanding for Cersei, and it's clear the show is deeply fascinated with her as I am - but I don't think she was ever trying to help any one of the Starks. Sansa was easy for her to bully as her life continued to fall apart.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Vee

[DRW50]

I was talking about the scene where she told Sansa to essentially become dead inside, aside from protecting her children as best she could. That was one of her more honest moments and was something she clearly wished she'd done when she'd been a young girl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDRxitf9n54

That scene is also why I'm confused at some Cersei stans saying Cersei would never admit Joffrey was a monster. She always knew. Always. She does admit it sometimes, although I think what she said to Margaery was pure gaming, nothing more.

She had no power over that. He was the king.

I agree she's not sympathetic, but I don't think anyone was saying she is...? I just see her as someone who has had a terrible life and at times reflects on that. I prefer that to the "let them eat cake (or feed it to the dogs)" Cersei.

Edited May 6, 2014 by DRW50

[EricMontreal22]

I felt she was acknowledging that--it wasn't so specific.

[DRW50]

http://www.vulture.com/2014/05/kristian-nairn-hodor-game-of-thrones-warging.html

http://www.vulture.com/2014/05/noah-taylor-locke-game-of-thrones-bran-jaime.html

[Juliajms]

She did, that's what being regent means, which is why Tyrion and Tywin were so appalled about the way she let him get out of control.

She had a controlling father, but I don't see her life as being so bad in comparison to the rest of Westeros. Not even Ned picked his own spouse. I think it's even safe to say Tywin forced Robert to marry Cersei. Tyrion's first wife was gang raped in front of him, but he didn't have a little girl beaten until she lost an eye and then smirk about it.

[DRW50]

I got the impression that no one knew what he was planning with the heirs. Cersei had spies and they were also left out of the loop. So were Varys and Littlefinger. If Tywin and Tyrion had been there, could they have heard about it beforehand and stopped it? I guess, but I don't know.

Ultimately I put that on Joffrey.

Tywin wasn't just controlling. He was abusive to all of his children. He punished them for having any thought or any feeling and he took Joanna's death out of them.

As for her life in comparison to others, yes, others had it worse, but I don't think anyone is saying Cersei had the worst life around. I just think she had a pretty awful life, and a pretty terrible upbringing. I know what she's done. I'm not going to disagree. But that doesn't mean she didn't have an abusive childhood that affected who she would be.

As for Tyrion, he's essentially written as a patron saint of Westeros, unnaturally so. I can't really judge other characters by him. Even then, I think you can see how his father's abuse damaged him and has made his relationships with others more limited.

Edited May 6, 2014 by DRW50

[DRW50]

I was reading a review of the episode and they said Jojen saw his hand on fire because he was seeing the burning of Craster's Keep. Others think this was foreshadowing his demise. What do you think?

There was also some talk of whether the revelation about Jon Arryn's death was too anticlimactic. To me, it hasn't been a major issue on the show in eons, and it hasn't been a big question for fans, so I wonder if that's why it was rushed through.

[Juliajms]

I think it might have been something else all together.

I didn't think it was all that anticlimactic, but it was exposition in a sense. Not sure how else they could have done it. Little Finger set this whole [!@#$%^&*] storm in motion, but to what end?

[Vee]

I didn't find it anticlimactic - I was [!@#$%^&*] shocked, and so was just about every comment I've seen elsewhere.

[EricMontreal22]

I must have some stupid friends, because a number of people didn't even really pay attention to what that revelation meant. I liked how it was done in a low key manner (as have some other revelations this season in particular.)

[Juliajms]

I wondered about that. I can see it being easily missed because I think this show is hard to follow for those who haven't read at least one book. I'm talking only about causal fans, not people who are really into the show.

I wonder if Tywin has any idea at all what Little Finger is up to? Is he actually tying to take the iron throne with the help of the Iron Bank? He was the master of coin, he could have led the country into debt on purpose I suppose. I can't imagine being Lord of the vale and having Sansa for his mistress was his goal when he started out. She might have looked nothing like Cat for all he knew.

[DRW50]

I think Littlefinger likely had plans to win Catelyn and only in the last few years did he realize that wasn't going to happen. After her final rebuff in season 2, he started moving in on Sansa.

His main goal with the money manager job was probably skimming to help his own fortune, not making any big moves, as he could have been caught out.

Tywin mostly seemed to stay away until Robert was gone. Even then it took him quite a while to get back to King's Landing. By the time he did, Littlefinger had everything he needed.

[DRW50]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-director-jon-snows-701128

She directed some of my favorite TWD episodes. I always imagine GoT is a very hard show to direct, because the stories are so disparate and becoming moreso each season, but she did a great job here.

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[Vee]

How deep did Littlefinger even look at the crown's funds? Given everything we now know he's done, it seems unlikely he could've missed the fact that the Lannisters are now just another old money Wall Street firm - broke, even though they're supposed to be the ones propping up the broke crown. Surely he's thought to do something about it, unless he's as shallow about this aspect of conquering as some of the theory he espoused to Varys, and so he missed it and all he bothered with was skimming the gold.

Stannis is the one making the smart move going for the money, because even Tywin doesn't think he can take the Iron Bank. Money is what can get anyone - they got Al Capone for tax evasion, remember. And Stannis is nothing if not a deeply frustrated (professionally, sexually and otherwise) public servant. Not that I think it will put him on the throne - I think Stannis and his entire crew are far too dysfunctional and backwards for that - but it's a smart play.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Vee

[Juliajms]

I have to speak up for Davos here, since it was his idea. Plus I think his scenes with Shereen are cute as can be.