And do you know who else I can stomach? Billy Miller. Again, the character is written horrendously, but I have no problems with BM. You can see he is totally bored and sleepwalks through junk material, but so does everybody else these days.

And regarding Katherine... The past 20 years of laziness and dreck brought Y&R to a state in which it is today. Ie. no plausible, compelling replacement for this character. Jeanne Cooper will be 82 in October this year. I fully believe she will never retire and will be there until her last day. I love the character, but they should have thought about adding someone else not taking her spot (because that can't be done), but someone "larger-than-life".

And do you know who else I can stomach? Billy Miller. Again, the character is written horrendously, but I have no problems with BM. You can see he is totally bored and sleepwalks through junk material, but so does everybody else these days.

The main difference is the junk material seems designed to showcase him. It's always a tic-laden one man show, even when he's in a room full of people.

The main difference is the junk material seems designed to showcase him. It's always a tic-laden one man show, even when he's in a room full of people.

And it showcases him. It showcases him in the amount that people hate it. A reaction is a reaction. In his sleepwalking he actually does a good job of annoying people with his portrayal and with what he does with Billy. People don't like Hoganesque males, of course, but if it elicits reaction and people noticing him, then that's all they want. Even if it's a wrong kind of reaction and all.

I like Billy Miller.

And it showcases him. It showcases him in the amount that people hate it. A reaction is a reaction.

I don't know if they base their writing on that. People reacted to Sabrina, very negatively, and they got rid of her. They reacted negatively to Adam becoming a sicko, and they are trying to make him a more sympathetic character. They routinely throw pity parties for Billy to make sure we don't dislike him too much. I think they do want people to see Billy as fun, and I'm sure a lot of people do. It's the same stuff Sheffer did with Craig on ATWT. As long as Billy does enough smirking and has enough one-liners, and pouts about what a victim he is, and all the characters around him are trashed to make him look better, then he can be passed off as "fun." And unless Billy goes around killing people, like what Sheffer did to Craig later on, then the Billy ticfest will probably continue on, with some still seeing Miller as the big salvation of the show.

I like Billy Miller.

I like him too, but it would be nice to actually see a character onscreen.

Edited January 21, 201015 yr by CarlD2

And regarding Katherine... The past 20 years of laziness and dreck brought Y&R to a state in which it is today. Ie. no plausible, compelling replacement for this character. Jeanne Cooper will be 82 in October this year. I fully believe she will never retire and will be there until her last day. I love the character, but they should have thought about adding someone else not taking her spot (because that can't be done), but someone "larger-than-life".

Indulge my fan fic here, it's the one scene I'd be thrilled to have stolen by Ma Bell from Beverly Hills...

I have the scene all planned out in my head, Katherine would have to have installed a portrait of herself in the living room above the fireplace for it to all come together...but...a drunk Jill, screaming at Kay's portrait about how her life had fallen apart, catching a glimpse of herself in the mirror, clutching her alcohol, wearing something Katherine-esque, diamonds glitterring in the dark light, Kay's theme playing and then the realization that she'd become that which she hated most: Katherine...Jill would scramble for the portrait, rip it up, really go ballistic and then, in an homage to my favorite scene ever, Jill would break the mirror by hurling her glass just like Kay did in 1998.

It would be an Emmy scene for Jess Walton...I've just always wanted a full circle moment to happen with Jill. I don't think it'll ever happen, but oh how it could have been done under Bill Bell.

Indulge my fan fic here, it's the one scene I'd be thrilled to have stolen by Ma Bell from Beverly Hills...

I have the scene all planned out in my head, Katherine would have to have installed a portrait of herself in the living room above the fireplace for it to all come together...but...a drunk Jill, screaming at Kay's portrait about how her life had fallen apart, catching a glimpse of herself in the mirror, clutching her alcohol, wearing something Katherine-esque, diamonds glitterring in the dark light, Kay's theme playing and then the realization that she'd become that which she hated most: Katherine...Jill would scramble for the portrait, rip it up, really go ballistic and then, in an homage to my favorite scene ever, Jill would break the mirror by hurling her glass just like Kay did in 1998.

It would be an Emmy scene for Jess Walton...I've just always wanted a full circle moment to happen with Jill. I don't think it'll ever happen, but oh how it could have been done under Bill Bell.

With Stephen Nichols as her love interest (I'm betting "temporarily"), they are going to steer Walton as FAR away from becoming the "Duchess" as they can. She's supposed to be young-ish and sexy (something, IMO, that failed in her scenes with the much younger Ji Min).

But what you write, IMO, is clearly what Bill Bell intended. It always seemed to me that the long-long arc was Jill, boozy and lonely and horny, would eventually become the very thing she professed most to hate. Since the "maternity reveal" watered down all the hate and resentment, the story would no longer have the impact it once could have.

I'm also p*ssed off that Jill has a whole family--folks we "know" and their offspring...but they don't use that. Kinda like Paul Williams....

I don't know if they base their writing on that. People reacted to Sabrina, very negatively, and they got rid of her. They reacted negatively to Adam becoming a sicko, and they are trying to make him a more sympathetic character. They routinely throw pity parties for Billy to make sure we don't dislike him too much. I think they do want people to see Billy as fun, and I'm sure a lot of people do. It's the same stuff Sheffer did with Craig on ATWT. As long as Billy does enough smirking and has enough one-liners, and pouts about what a victim he is, and all the characters around him are trashed to make him look better, then he can be passed off as "fun." And unless Billy goes around killing people, like what Sheffer did to Craig later on, then the Billy ticfest will probably continue on, with some still seeing Miller as the big salvation of the show.

Their vision for Billy is not this romantic lead, this great man or whatever, not any of the cr*p they sell in previews, interviews spoilers. Forget that. It's that guy wearing bermudas and flip-flops during the Cane reveal. That definition of sleepwalking in acting, the vapid, shallow, bored male is what Hogan is writing and revels in doing that. Hogan is just congratulating himself on a well-done job each time Billy appears in a scene.

I like him too, but it would be nice to actually see a character onscreen.

I would prefer that, but I am enjoying this in a way I am enjoying Amber.

I do wonder where they will take Tucker. I agree that he probably won't be kept with Jill, they will probably put him with one of the women they see as being more desireable. I just wonder if they plan to keep him as the baddie who manipulated Katherine, or if this part of the story has been so rushed because they plan to move him into something else. If they will keep him as Victor's nemesis but not in the blood feud way of Jack/Victor, which means Braeden might not be as in need of seeing Tucker emasculated, as he probably is with Jack.

Then they can do more of what they want with Tucker while continuing to phase Jack out of the show.

I don't think it'll ever happen, but oh how it could have been done under Bill Bell.

Premise: I am not talking about you.

But that sentence illustrates fully the trouble with people who watch Y&R today. They want it to be that old, Baroque, huge soap, with long stories and amazing payoffs. People live in the past, they want the same stories, the same people, the same moments being written again. Probably slightly differently, just for them not to be really the same.

It will never happen. This soap is in the gutter partly because of it. People's insistence on how it once was.

These people are a minority, they are 897 of them, while the other 9867 left the soap because it was "all the same". They just abandonded ship, with the most hardcore fans staying until the last moment before the last fade-out.

That does not mean Latham or Arena are an alternative — most certainly not — but it shows how the lack of evolution took a huge hammer and hit the ant who was just passing by.

Edited January 21, 201015 yr by Sylph

On Amber, I can't really disagree with either of you. I felt the same way about Amber, generally, until the past year. I think it was a mistake to ever move her beyond being Daniel's girlfriend and a friend to "Mrs. C." Deacon's return, and the whining about "Little D" have taken a hatchet to her character. The more her shrieking and weeping are showcased, the more ridiculous she becomes. She is not suited to a leading role.

On Amber, I can't really disagree with either of you. I felt the same way about Amber, generally, until the past year. I think it was a mistake to ever move her beyond being Daniel's girlfriend and a friend to "Mrs. C." Deacon's return, and the whining about "Little D" have taken a hatchet to her character. The more her shrieking and weeping are showcased, the more ridiculous she becomes. She is not suited to a leading role.

You know, when she starts to shriek and weep, that means I will still be able to extract fun out of it because people in the Y&R threads will be all over it, complaining, whining and all!

I do wonder where they will take Tucker. I agree that he probably won't be kept with Jill, they will probably put him with one of the women they see as being more desireable.

TPTB will chem test but will keep him with Jill as an easy way to get Katherine & Jill fighting.

I just wonder if they plan to keep him as the baddie who manipulated Katherine, or if this part of the story has been so rushed because they plan to move him into something else. If they will keep him as Victor's nemesis but not in the blood feud way of Jack/Victor, which means Braeden might not be as in need of seeing Tucker emasculated, as he probably is with Jack.

Tucker's redemption will be rushed.

TPTB want Victor/Nick/Adam.

Badly.

Then they can do more of what they want with Tucker while continuing to phase Jack out of the show.

*cough*larrybryggman*cough*

They want it to be that old, Baroque, huge soap, with long stories and amazing payoffs. People live in the past, they want the same stories, the same people, the same moments being written again. Probably slightly differently, just for them not to be really the same.

Not really.

What the audience wants is intelligent cohesive soap.

Nobody can BE Bill Bell BUT Bill Bell but Y&R CAN still BE Y&R WITHOUT Bill Bell.

Not really.

What the audience wants is intelligent cohesive soap.

Nobody can BE Bill Bell BUT Bill Bell but Y&R CAN still BE Y&R WITHOUT Bill Bell.

True. But with Y&R elements. Which is when complications ensue.

True. But with Y&R elements. Which is when complications ensue.

You can innovate without having to reinvent.

Keeping production values consistent but telling relevant stories is the way to do that.