I don't like the peripheral nature of Greg/Rachel (and I've gotten pretty tired of ol' Greg, actually) or Cris/Layla, but the fact is they are all around and appear regularly in substantial roles in a number of stories.

What stories does Greg substantially appear in?

After Matt's surgery he all but disappeared nor has there been much effort to give him a life beyond Rachel who herself has been warped into a Todd/Tea worshipper & a sounding board for Sky.

I think they developed Cristian and Layla very nicely this year, especially this fall

I think they did a good job with Cris/Layla but it's clear they aren't going to be more than Kish proppers.

Nope, she just goes off on anyone in her sight that gets in her way and gets rude for no apparent reason

...very very annoying

Goes off on who?

The last person she "went off" on was Justin & he's been gone since the summer & her being rude is very mild compared to Dani holding guns on people.

I'm gonna catch the show tonight on YouTube, but I got to ask ... what the Kish love scene handled well?

I'm gonna catch the show tonight on YouTube, but I got to ask ... what the Kish love scene handled well?

It was romantic.

There were CANDLES!

Destiny's also a sister, a daughter & friend.

To dayplayers. As contract players, Destiny, Greg, and to a lesser extent Shaun are expected to carry the weight of making the family viable. Shenell can't do that, and Terrell Tilford carries chairs more than scenes, so if they want that family to work - the best actors are Patano and Faison, the dayplayer parents - they need to recast at least Des, if not Greg.

Her character has many levels beyond being strident.

Maybe, but I don't see them. Even with Shaun, when she found out Rachel and Greg played him, her reaction was simply "PSSH!! Get over it and do what I want!" That's when I lost my remaining interest in Destiny. I thought she was going to finally see Shaun's POV about their brother - didn't happen. It's all one note, one level. Much of that is on the writers, but soap writers also write for what they feel actors can play. What can Shenell Edmonds play?

Matt acts like he never had interest in her which isn't true but with Dani the wonder child around for a ready made relationship based on TPTB mandate what's the use?

I think Matthew considered it for a brief moment back around the time of Clint and Nora's wedding, but Des never opened her mouth to make anything happen. They missed each other and Matthew's attention wandered to someone new, simple as that.

So instead of accepting Shenell's shortcomings viewers should accept Missal's?

We take the bad with the good on most soap actors. The issue is when the negative outweights the positive, and for me, at least, KM's positives with EA outweigh the T&T-propping Danielle engenders. Whereas SE's positives do not outweigh her negatives.

Nat/Cristian/Jenn didn't have the ugly racial implications like there are with Destiny/Matt/Dani so Jessica Morris performances could be judged on their own merit.

You're right, this situation does have an ugly racial side to it, but that is metatextual, it's not coming from the show. If we're looking at these people just as characters on a soap and performers who were capable, then I think we should just judge them on individual merit. At least, it's what I choose to do.

She apologized to Matthew who sat there like a bump on a log

He was in a wheelchair.

If that was the case why not put Matt in a triangle with two visible minorities?

And it's not too much to expect that THIS show be sensitive racial issues when they had MARCIE a plus sized White woman be chosen by not one but TWO attractive men.

The difference is Kathy Brier was an acting powerhouse with chemistry to burn, and a huge fan favorite for a long time. Now compare her to Des.

Kyle and Fish....EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE They were hot!!

Maybe it's my generation, but I cried. Has a soap ever gone that gay before? It made me think of the first gay soaps kiss as imagined in Longtime Companion. People like me were expecting scenes like that years ago. To see it finally happen was like watching history in the making.

The difference is Kathy Brier was an acting powerhouse with chemistry to burn, and a huge fan favorite for a long time. Now compare her to Des.

There's a really mean joke in there somewhere.

To dayplayers. As contract players, Destiny, Greg, and to a lesser extent Shaun are expected to carry the weight of making the family viable. Shenell can't do that, and Terrell Tilford carries chairs more than scenes, so if they want that family to work - the best actors are Patano and Faison, the dayplayer parents - they need to recast at least Des, if not Greg.

There are plenty of other weak to bad actors on OLTL so why do the minority ones have to be recast before fans get invested in them?

Gex & Sole have huge fanbases despite both couples being played by mediocre actors.

John's relationships are almost always popular despite Easton doing nothing but standing around sullen & unshaven.

Even with Shaun, when she found out Rachel and Greg played him, her reaction was simply "PSSH!! Get over it and do what I want!"

A conversation Shaun SHOULD have had with a peer his own age instead of discussing his love life with his little sister.

Was Mo busy?

It's like Blair & Nora coddling Tea when Carlotta is right there.

I thought she was going to finally see Shaun's POV about their brother - didn't happen. It's all one note, one level. Much of that is on the writers, but soap writers also write for what they feel actors can play.

TPTB clearly wanted Greg/Rachel over Shaun/Rachel so why would Destiny the character be written as overly sympathetic to Shaun if TPTB prefer one relationship over the other.

Shenell physically comforting Sean wouldn't have worked when TPTB's script marginalized Shaun's feelings.

I think Matthew considered it for a brief moment back around the time of Clint and Nora's wedding, but Des never opened her mouth to make anything happen. They missed each other and Matthew's attention wandered to someone new, simple as that.

But today's scenes didn't even acknowledge that.

They were written as Matthew being oblivious to Destiny's feelings when that wasn't the case & instead of Matthew owning his assy behavior the script made him out to be an innocent & that he was totally unaware of his TPTB mandated "attraction" to Dani.

We take the bad with the good on most soap actors. The issue is when the negative outweights the positive, and for me, at least, KM's positives with EA outweigh the T&T-propping Danielle engenders. Whereas SE's positives do not outweigh her negatives.

And as no surprise I feel the opposite.

Missal's range isn't awe inspiring that all the ugly racial implications will suddenly be acceptable cause she & EA are thrown together.

I'm not against a Destiny recast but the reality is it won't happen & if it does she won't be a similar type which will defeat the purpose entirely.

You're right, this situation does have an ugly racial side to it, but that is metatextual, it's not coming from the show. If we're looking at these people just as characters on a soap and performers who were capable, then I think we should just judge them on individual merit. At least, it's what I choose to do.

I could & would judge them fairly if the canvas wasn't being horribly warped to prop one pairing & their miracle child & the actors of color had the slightest chance of being treated fairly especially since a similar situation is about to happen with Larkko & Ford.

He was in a wheelchair.

He didn't have to chase after her but he couldn't even act bothered that his "BFF" was being treated horribly especially since she spared MUCH more sympathy for his snarling new friend than was deserved.

[quote name='Vee' date='30 December 2009 - 04:37 PM' timestamp='1262209057' post='785177'The difference is Kathy Brier was an acting powerhouse with chemistry to burn, and a huge fan favorite for a long time. Now compare her to Des.

So plus sized white women deserve to be loved, treated with respect & put first by multiple love interests who were said to be unattractive by the head of daytime while plus sized minority actresses don't?

Whether or not Shenell is a good actress isn't the issue the issue is that OLTL made it a priority to show Marcie as someone worth being loved & worthy of a romantic life despite her unconventional appearance.

Edited December 30, 200915 yr by DeeeDee

I'm gonna catch the show tonight on YouTube, but I got to ask ... what the Kish love scene handled well?

Yes!

It was romantic.

There were CANDLES!

I'm gonna catch the show tonight on YouTube, but I got to ask ... what the Kish love scene handled well?

Let's see...they kiss...take off each other's shirts....kiss some more...they are seen in bed TOGETHER.....no shirts on...assuming they are naked...lol...more kissing....then Fish says ...something like...Is it always going to be like this??.....Kyle gets Fish's hand and puts it on his chest/heart.....swoon.......

And yes there were candles......lol

Maybe it's my generation, but I cried. Has a soap ever gone that gay before? It made me think of the first gay soaps kiss as imagined in Longtime Companion. People like me were expecting scenes like that years ago. To see it finally happen was like watching history in the making.

We're from the same generation but I didn't cry. I felt warm inside though. It was something. It was done much better than what ATWT did with Luke and Noah..which was nothing...a messed up bed and a good morning ...you took long in the shower comment...blah.

Edited December 30, 200915 yr by Ruxton Hills

We're from the same generation but I didn't cry. I felt warm inside though. It was something. It was done much better than what ATWT did with Luke and Noah..which was nothing...a messed up bed and a good morning ...you took long in the shower comment...blah.

Thanks. My tears were like those other people shed at weddings

Let's see...they kiss...take off each other's shirts....kiss some more...they are seen in bed TOGETHER.....no shirts on...assuming they are naked...lol...more kissing....then Fish says ...something like...Is it always going to be like this??.....Kyle gets Fish's hand and puts it on his chest/heart.....swoon.......

And yes there were candles......lol

Right after the fireworks!

well done afterglow

Thanks. My tears were like those other people shed at weddings

Right after the fireworks!

well done afterglow

Oh yeah forgot about the fireworks. Afterglow reminds me of Golden Girls and Sophia.....LOL

Oh yeah forgot about the fireworks. Afterglow reminds me of Golden Girls and Sophia.....LOL

That's okay. The fireworks made me think of Bobby Brady kissing Millicent.

That's okay. The fireworks made me think of Bobby Brady kissing Millicent.

Haha..I remember that eppy. I forgot to mention that Kyle kissed Fish's hand when he placed in his chest.

Haha..I remember that eppy. I forgot to mention that Kyle kissed Fish's hand when he placed in his chest.

Male torso flesh pressed together and spooning really did it for me. That's big for any network show, primetime even.