World Turns for a buck!

[Mitch]

I think Matheison's tounge is even orange! Off topic but AMC was on at my gym, and I see they have him and Lucci together????Wow, that is a freaky pairing, they both look so weird together.

Anyway, I know what you are saying about cable, etc. However, I think that many of the cable shows, Sex in the City included arent more sophisticated becasue they mention sex, as a matter of fact, I think their dealing with sex is immature at best as its always a joke that they snigger at...which I dont mind as I like a good dirty joke, but I wouldnt call it sophisticated. I do think that at least in Sex in the City case, the success is that they targeted a niche audience, women and went for it. Women tuned in for the dirty talk and fashion and humor...but what create the cult following is that it shows smart women (who do some really foolish things) who actually *like* each other, have created a family, stick up for each other and love and respect each other. Soaps used to target women but now its a misogynist mess with women more interested in catching a man for two seconds then taking care of each other. GL for example used to have a strong friendship base of Blake/Harley/Cassie and even Mel...but then Harley and Cassie ignored everyone but their current "love of my life," Harley slept with her nieces hump, and Cassie slept with her brother in law.

Looks are a matter of opinion...I just personally think Howarth is really odd looking and not in an interesting way...and that girly way they cut his hair doesnt help. How Barbara and James could produce that odd looking thing?!???!

Fairwinds is not the McKenkie castle. They turned that goofy thing into a youth center (believe it or not, this was Marland you know so we must be relevent and have Nancy Hughes try to teach that rapper chick to read by using rap lyrics!!) Now Marland didnt just have Duncan bring his castle over and build it stone by stone (which would be impossible even if you had enough moeny) but I remember laughing that they say he actaully build a moat around it! A moat in suburban Chicago or wherever Oakdale is???? I think it would be funny if they had a new character say, "Why is their a castle in the middle of town."

[Khan]

Same here.

Realism is one thing, but it's not as if I need to see everyone running around naked in order for a certain show to relate to me. I just care about good stories featuring good actors.

[Saving ATWT]

An old white lady teaching a poor black kid to read slaps of liberal racism and a little white guilt. Poor Marland was a product of his generation.

A moat in the middle of Oakdale: WTF! This is one of the worst sets I have ever heard of. I am all for fantacy but this is just silly.

As for the Sex City remarks, I am just looking at a way for soaps to regain some ground. Our of everything you just said, friendship between the women is what really stands out. This used to be an element on all soaps but now all we get are cat fights and bidding wars over pathetic men.

[Khan]

OTOH, Nancy was a schoolteacher before she married Chris; and like many educators, she was helping someone learn to read by using something she liked and was familiar with (in this case, hip-hop music). No different, really, from "Sesame Street" or "The Electric Company" using things inner-city kids know, like popular music and TV commercial slogans, to teach them their A-B-C's and 1-2-3's. Besides, better Nancy, I felt, than Lisa.

OTOH, thanks to the ridiculous and out-of-nowhere twist that Lord Stewart Cushing was, indeed, a Stewart, it'd been established that Oakdale in fact had a coastline. (FYI: Stewart and Marcy Thompson were married in some castle there. Hmmm....)

[Saving ATWT]

Firstly, I think quite a few of the PBS shows smack of liberal racism and can be pretty condescending. I also think the issue of who is writing the story is important when looking at white guilt. Marland was a product of his generation and, as a result, looked at isses such as these through a that particular prism. None of this makes him a bad person. I just don't know if an 1990's image of a white woman 'slumming it' with hip hop is exactly progressive.

[Mitch]

I was in college at that time,playing rugby and not the most, uh mature, sensitive person (as I am now lol) and even I thought it was uncomfortable and a bit of, as you said,"liberal racisim." I think Marland had great intentions, and yes, it did go back to history that Nancy was a school teacher. Wagner and the actress were able to pull it off...but it still came off as a bit elitist...if the character from the beggining was less, Marland polite and more hostile to Nancy, that Nancy had to pull out her old toughness (Nancy used to be a hard ass back in the day) and they both won the respect of each other...

[Saving ATWT]

It all goes back to Kipling's White Man's Burden mentality. Should that little girl learn how to read? Yes, of course; but it all comes back to who tells a story and whether it plays on elitist feel good sentiment. With that said, I would never call Marland racist. I just don't think he, nor any other white, should have been telling that story with any hard ass charge.

[Saving ATWT]

I still think a once a week World Turns would be a boost to Lifetime and be its highest rated show aside from Project Runway. Actually, if World Turns ran 5 days a week on Lifetime, the network could run the show twice or three times a day: let's say 12 pm, 7pm and (as filler) 2am plus repeats on the weekend. I'm guessing that the network would somehow make some money on a deal like this. Plus, Lifetime has international channels.

I'm sure there are probably cheaper forms of original programming but this could work well. I know NBC (with ABC) owns part of Lifetime, thus, the show could also make its way onto NBC daytime. I don't understand why these companies do not repurpose content onto their networks. CBS did show Dexter from Showtime, cartoons from Nick. NBC aired Queer Eye from Bravo. In general, however this has not caught on and should because it is a great way to reduce cost, promote your cable network, and reach the 30% of Americans who do not have cable. If I ran CBS Corp. or NBCU my favorite word would be repurpose.

ANY THOUGHTS?

[Mitch]

Well, they supposedly wanted GL...ATWT as you mentioned is a lot healthier and "together," then GL was, and it doenst have as much baggage as GL had with the expensive stars (Zimmer, Newman) and not quite as much weirdo "fans," like the Zimmer worshipers and the Brad Cole freaks. If they it back to its roots and made it a story about two closely knit families,instead of the upper class Lowells and middle class Hughes you know have the upper class Hughes and the rural middle class Snyders, focus back family stuff, not youth potions, etc. If they brought back both Frannie and Sabrina as characters in their 30's (I know, Frannie should be in her 40s but I would give her some of James potion...) and their lives and loves, it would hit the niche viewers Lifetime wants. Maybe have Frannie marry Seth and move them into the farm and take over for Bob and Kim (I would definatley keep Bob and Kim around, they still are healthy and vital and that link we need to the past..maybe they, like the Martins,have semiretired to Florida but will still make frequent appearances) as the go to couple in Oakdale, and have Sabrina handle the "career woman," with the ups and downs of romance. Focusing on the two sisters and their different lives would give it a "Army Wives," vibe.

The main problem ATWT was facing (if it had not been canceled) is that there is no one in the middle generation to "take over," for Bob and Kim and Lucinda and Emma. Tom and Margo are not Bob and Kim..(actually I would rather they be retired to Florida them B and K) but if they created Frannie and Seth as the tentpole couple it would make sense. ATWT started out with Nancy and Chris as a normal married couple in there 30's who deal with their family , friends and community issues. It would be a reboot without totally destroying the identity of the show.

Doesnt Televest still have the lease on Peapack? In no way do I want them to go entirely in the GL production process, but Peapack would make more sense as a double for a more rural, small town Oakdale then it did for thriving metropolis Springfield. And for christ sake keep Wheeler far away from the show with her stupid ideas of being cutting edge by blaring bad faux lite rock music in the background and her insistence on showing the ugliest parts of Peapack.

[Saving ATWT]

Mitch, totally agree with you in regards to Frannie and Sabrina. There is a 'lost generation' problem on ATWT. The Hughes family has been totally mismanaged as have the Stewarts. Margo and Tom would be wrong to use on various levels. In addition, I see some of the same problems with the Walsh family. Sierra or even an adopted Bianca should have been primed as the 'next Lucinda', so to speak. Instead, all they have done is fold what is left of the Walsh fam into the extended Snyder clan. I could almost live without so many Snyders. Kim is Barbara's aunt, but nothing is ever done with this connection anymore. Sometimes, I think the Ryans are supposed to be the new Hughes family even though this is cheezy. Do TPTB see Lily and Holden as the new Bob and Kim?

I love your idea about putting Bob and Kim into semi-retirement. This would cut contract costs and help clear the canvas. What bothers me is that TPTB seem to see Lilly and Holden+ Carly and Jack as the so-called 'middle-generation': Chris and Nancy 2.0 minus the stability. Instead of focusing on families, TPTB seem to have centered everything on two aging supercouples who lost their charms about one decade ago. Also, instead of breaking the show down by family, it seems like the writers see Oakdale as one big family. Marland started this, however, I doubt that this was his endgame. I still think there are way to many characters on canvas, too many on contract. Seven come to mind who could be slashed/put on recurring.

Mitch...my question for you and anyone else: Is their enough time to make the changes before September. Do you think a new Network would want to take the show without the re-boot already finished?

[Darlotto99]

So come september ATWT will stop turning but I think I might have come with a happy medium to help some of you fans come to terms with the end of this legendary soap. first let me state I am not nor have I ever been a fan of ATWT im a fan of the Y&R/B&B. yes i have caught bits and pieces of the show just not enough to get invested in the show. so here is what I think should happen P&G should sell all the characters to the Bell familys well characters that they want and persumely it would be the legendary characters like Reva and Josh ect you pick and chose. The characters that are sold to the Bell family would then relocate to the Bell's soap B&B and join that show. I belive that the B&B needs a change of direction and with the infusion of some ATWT characters it would give the show a fresh change and would allow for new storylines. I don't think B&B should go to an hour format it should stay half hour. with some of the ATWT characters on the B&B the show would defently become over bloated with characters and thats where the Y&R comes into play since it's a hour soap they could take some B&B characters because the two shows are linked so tightly some characters could easily switch soaps without any problem. my pick to move to the Y&R would be the Forrester family (Eric,Stephanie,Thorn,Felisha,Taylor) just keep Brook & Ridge in LA or kill them off lol. It would be a win win for everyone Y&R would get Bill Bell's four greatest familys on one show Newmans,Abbotts,Channslers and the Forresters with some great storylines imagine Newman Enterprise vs Forrester Creations. B&B would get fresh new talent to build around and take the show in a new direction and ATWT fans would get to see some of their favourit characters continue on. it may not be a perfect solution because its never easy to say goodbye to an old friend but at least a piece of ATWT would contine to turn.

what you think could ATWT characters work on a Bell soap?

[Saving ATWT]

I've actually thought that PGP should have done a deal with the Bell's years ago and also made certain ajustments to ATWT in order to hold on to the B&B ratings lead. On an average day, World Turns looses .6 hh points and, when B&B was stronger, the spread was larger. My only question: How would the move help the Bells? A majority of ATWT viewers are already watching the Bell shows seeing as they are the lead in. I like the idea--think it could lead to some interesting plotlines. I just don't see the Bells wanting to give PGP money when they can hire the actors and then create similiar characters.

[JellicleCat]

I'm sorry, but I don't see anyone on the canvas at ATWT right now fitting in on B&B. Not even characters with a history in the fashion industry like Barbara or Carly. And doing what you suggest would probably not satisfy anyone, not ATWT viewers or B&B viewers. ATWT might not be in the greatest of shapes right now, but it's still much better than B&B. I shudder to think of what Brad Bell would do to the beloved characters from Oakdale.

[Mitch]

I so agree on you and the focus on aging supercouple. They are so tied to a "formula," that they don't want to leave that (if TPTB had stuck to that formula years ago we would still have Lisa and Bob!!!) I dont think that Marland wanted the whole town to be a big family. I think he clearly deliniated that the Hughes family was an entity of its own, encomposing the Ryan family and closely tied to the Stewarts. The Snyders were their own entity as where the Walshs, though once again, they were closely alligned. I think it is the "vision," of the producer to get away from distinct families...Wheeler did that with GL..she totally trashed every family but the Coopers and at the very end, had to smash everyone in the community together to get some kind of family feel, but it didnt work. Maybe its a generational thing,(okay, I am being really broad here)or an east coast thing, or its something the nimbrods again looked at a focus group of 12 year olds who didnt like a focus on "family," and wanted it on individuals. (In Wheeler's case I think it had a lot to do with her "new age," philiosophy, no one was held uncountable for their actions, cause you know, they kinda ment well and really,who wants a family unit..it takes a village.

I think an interesting thing that ATWT could have hit on was all of our desires for family and security and how that collides with the realities of the modern world. How does one stay an individual while remaining part of a family unit?

The contract thing I think could be delt with in ways I wished that GL would have delt with thiers. By rotating people in and out of contracts in cycles. On GL we had Buzz and Frank on contract, though they had no storyline or really heavy use, they were there for support (which is important in its own right) However, characters who were driving story (Beth) or should have been (Blake) werent on contract. Alan was on contract yet repeating the same storyline over and over again. Like on GL I think ATWT should put all the vets on recurring, but still USE them..(i.e. if you have Lisa on, have her do something then standing there just to say,:"Oh, hey we have Lisa stil here.") transition the "middle," generation up to semistable status, (say Frannie and Seth take over for Bob and Kim,) and rotate the stable of characters in contract for a cycle of story where they are hot, and move them down for when they arent. This would give both the viewers, the characters and the writers a break, as we dont have to constantly have the perils on Carjack or Holden and Lily, as Margo and Tom or whoever are busy for three or four months while Carjack simmer on the backburner, giving both actors a chance to do other things and remain fresh.

I think that no other outlet would take this show on without the reboot starting. THey have to see that Televest is committed creatively to the show and the creative team in place can handle the reigns of the show. I dont think Lifetime or anyone else wants to go out and find somebody to run the show, so they have to see that TPTB wont repeat the same mistakes which got the show cancelled in the first place.

By the way, I love the idea of Sierra coming back and being full out Lucindaish. Then Sierra and Lily could go at it, while Lucinda rolls her eyes and saracstically makes fun of them from the sidelines.

[Saving ATWT]

Who do you think would be the best writer to come in and fix ATWT? If the show were to be totally revamped, I actually think Hogan Sheffer might be a good fit. He is familiar with the show and, regardless of my likes/dislikes, did get ratings up. He was far from a perfect writer but maybe bought the show a few extra seasons. The show was a mess before he came on board. At the very least, something was always happening when he was around. I may have not always liked each show but they were interesting. I liked when he brought back Sierra and used her at Worldwide. I also like the writing for Roseanna when she was bitchy. Even the addition of Jordon Sinclair was well done.