Didn't your hear? Either Christine or her evil twin Kristine (name change by DeeDee).

Sad thing is, with this writing team, it could happen.

Sad thing is, with this writing team, it could happen.

I'm just waiting for them to reveal that there is a twin town somewhere around where every single person is duplicated.

Two wrongs don't make a right though, it just makes more than one person wrong.

I'm not disagreeing with you.

I'm just saying that the failure that was Jack/Sharon wasn't just because of Case.

Their reluctance has not shown on screen and that's my biggest gripe with all these actors and their various preferences.

For me Sharon Case sold Sharon not loving Jack but wanting to & Bergman sold me that he loved the idea of Sharon much more than the reality.

But Morrow never convinced me he cared about Sharon beyond sex post plane crash & has never sold THE GREATEST LOVE EVER he supposedly had with Giggly Heffa.

No one should be allowed to "Burton" out.

Amen.

Edited November 23, 200916 yr by DeeeDee

I'd like to hope they're more creative than to bring Sheila back again..

This is the same creative team that eliminated two cancer survivors from a current cancer patients story.

The same creative team that had two rape victims treated by a doctor that molested his patients.

The same creative team that encouraged incest & sexual manipulation over writing for minorities.

The same creative team that killed two members of the same family in almost the same way in the same place.

I'm just waiting for them to reveal that there is a twin town somewhere around where every single person is duplicated.

Twinoa City!

Twinoa City!

WIN.

Mark H the story is still a big mess if some chemistry develops

LOL. Yes, you're right. But chemistry (for me) can compensate. In other words, if love blossoms on top of the rotten foundation and horrible ruins, it will add emotional complexity to the Adam-reveal down the road. For me. To be clear, what I'd love is for Sharon to fall as deeply in love with Adam as she ever has with any man. And I want Adam to reciprocate, deeply and passionately and with regret. I want him to want to impregnate Sharon in some misguided attempt to "give her back" what she lost. And then...when the love can go no deeper...I want Sharon to learn what Adam did. And I want her to shoot him. . Think Nina-and-David-Kimble, LOL.

Gotta love how these hacks are trying to ignore Adam's criminal behaviour in an effort to sell this chemistry-less and boring pairing between Muhney's caricature and Sharon.

Y&R is going to its grave with this toxic vision, watch...

I don't agree on the chemistry part.

And you know why I can't blame this show for "toxicity"? Because I just watched (fascinating, shocking) episodes of another soap where a movie star artfully stepped on a dying man's throat, and then artfully arranged his corpse. If that is what is going on elsewhere in daytime (and it was truly compelling to see, I might add), Y&R still feels like Romper Room compared to that.

I hear old episodes are airing on Thursday and Friday.

Thursday's episode is from 2005, it's Michael and Lauren's wedding. You know, back when Y&R had a better and consistent writing team.

Friday's episode is last year's pretentious and hammy "It's A Wonderful Life" episode, which centered on Michael.

Pretentious, check. Hammy, check. Damn entertaining, check. Emmy winning, check.

I think they are addicted to going for the "shock". Won't it be shocking when Sharon finds out she shagged the guy who stole her baby!? Won't it be shocking when Ashley finds out her baby's godfather and the man she trusts more than her own brother was trying to drive her nuts! It doesn't matter if these stories are over the top and outlandish as long as shock ensues.

See above. I'm really looking forward to that shock, though. Think Nina-and-David-Kimble, and it all comes into focus.

And there may well be a more sinister reason for showing these particular episodes if the rat Lauren received is any indication.

Yup. Likey is getting a story, that seems clear. These selections never seem to be accidental.

LOL. Yes, you're right. But chemistry (for me) can compensate. In other words, if love blossoms on top of the rotten foundation and horrible ruins, it will add emotional complexity to the Adam-reveal down the road. For me. To be clear, what I'd love is for Sharon to fall as deeply in love with Adam as she ever has with any man. And I want Adam to reciprocate, deeply and passionately and with regret. I want him to want to impregnate Sharon in some misguided attempt to "give her back" what she lost. And then...when the love can go no deeper...I want Sharon to learn what Adam did. And I want her to shoot him. . Think Nina-and-David-Kimble, LOL.

I don't agree on the chemistry part.

And you know why I can't blame this show for "toxicity"? Because I just watched (fascinating, shocking) episodes of another soap where a movie star artfully stepped on a dying man's throat, and then artfully arranged his corpse. If that is what is going on elsewhere in daytime (and it was truly compelling to see, I might add), Y&R still feels like Romper Room compared to that.

If we're going to compare Y&R to what has been the most violent, nasty show on daytime, one of the nastiest on all of TV, for a decade or more, then that means our expectations are so low for Y&R we no longer bother to have any hope for them. And once again, Y&R's problems are not their own fault, someone else is always there to take the blame or the attention.

Even then, GH does not have women examined by molesters.

The problem with all of this with Sharon/Adam is that it's not about Sharon at all. Her part of the story, her grieving, was ignored. The rest is all about Adam and Nick. Poor poor Adam who suffers so much at being in love with the woman whose baby he stole. And poor poor Nick who has to deal with the heartbreak of one of his women getting cozy with the brother he hates.

It's all very by the numbers. They ignored any real complexity in the characters because they just cared about the big "gotcha" moment of Sharon hooking up with the man who essentially killed her baby.

Edited November 23, 200916 yr by CarlD2

If we're going to compare Y&R to what has been the most violent, nasty show on daytime, one of the nastiest on all of TV, for a decade or more, then that means our expectations are so low for Y&R we no longer bother to have any hope for them. And once again, Y&R's problems are not their own fault, someone else is always there to take the blame or the attention.

Even then, GH does not have women examined by molesters.

Y&R is worse. Doppelgangers, invented sexual orientations that pop out of nowhere, the return of the dead, massive carnage of every single character, the massive influx of new, terrible, poorly developed "characters", abysmal production values, vomit-worthy dialogue, nonexistence of long-term planning... GH at least has the best writing team in all of daytime sans Guza and it looks very good in HD.

I didn't actually understand your last two sentences? I.e. who did Mark blame now for Y&R's problems? And if GH doesn't have women examined by molesters, aren't you than saying it's better than Y&R and that it contradicts your first sentence, making Y&R the nastiest piece of cr*p on TV today?

I didn't actually understand your last two sentences? I.e. who did Mark blame now for Y&R's problems? And if GH doesn't have women examined by molesters, aren't you than saying it's better than Y&R and that it contradicts your first sentence, making Y&R the nastiest piece of cr*p on TV today?

GH and Y&R are nasty in different ways. You get a general level of woman hatred on both shows, but GH is more about mobsters and mobster worship, with the women just props, but Y&R tends to focus more on degrading these women almost like some sort of a sick whim.

My point about someone else being to blame is that when Y&R does something awful, then we are likely to hear from the soap press or fans or somewhere that other shows are worse, that daytime is dying, so what can we expect. They are rarely expected to take responsibility for their own poor quality.

GH and Y&R are nasty in different ways. You get a general level of woman hatred on both shows, but GH is more about mobsters and mobster worship, with the women just props, but Y&R tends to focus more on degrading these women almost like some sort of a sick whim.

My point about someone else being to blame is that when Y&R does something awful, then we are likely to hear from the soap press or fans or somewhere that other shows are worse, that daytime is dying, so what can we expect. They are rarely expected to take responsibility for their own poor quality.

True.

Pretentious, check. Hammy, check. Damn entertaining, check. Emmy winning, check.

Subjectivity, check.

Awful writing team, check.

Y&R in the creative gutter, check.

Edited November 23, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

GH and Y&R are nasty in different ways. You get a general level of woman hatred on both shows, but GH is more about mobsters and mobster worship, with the women just props, but Y&R tends to focus more on degrading these women almost like some sort of a sick whim.

My point about someone else being to blame is that when Y&R does something awful, then we are likely to hear from the soap press or fans or somewhere that other shows are worse, that daytime is dying, so what can we expect. They are rarely expected to take responsibility for their own poor quality.

EXACTLY.

Something crappy going on at another show does not negate how awful Y&R is creatively and shouldn't excuse the awful writing on the show or be used to justify it in any sense.

Y&R is worse. Doppelgangers, invented sexual orientations that pop out of nowhere, the return of the dead, massive carnage of every single character, the massive influx of new, terrible, poorly developed "characters", abysmal production values, vomit-worthy dialogue, nonexistence of long-term planning... GH at least has the best writing team in all of daytime sans Guza and it looks very good in HD.

I didn't actually understand your last two sentences? I.e. who did Mark blame now for Y&R's problems? And if GH doesn't have women examined by molesters, aren't you than saying it's better than Y&R and that it contradicts your first sentence, making Y&R the nastiest piece of cr*p on TV today?

LOL, Mark blamed no one for anything.

Mark said that to call Y&R toxic because of this Adam-Sharon stuff just doesn't hold water for me...there is much nastier stuff on daytime.

Incidentally Sylph, I agree with you on all the bolded elements in your list. I don't personally consider GH (what I have been seeing of it) or Y&R toxic. I have to say that GH is just so compelling to me right now. Indeed, after I watched the Franco body-arranging scenes, I was so disturbed, I watched the Sopranos scene where Adrianna tried to get away from Silvio on her hands and knees as he aimed a gun at her head. Both were disturbing to me...and both were "can't turn your head away" in the sense of "what evil can humans do to one another".

I don't think it is bad or wrong to show this dark, disgusting stuff. It is a lens on an aspect of the human condition. Like Dexter on Showtime. At least GH is vaguely original for daytime.

Turning back to the episode thread, I have to say that the CBS Thanksgiving promos for this week look good...a nice mix of family, drama, humor.

Subjectivity, check.

Awful writing team, check.

Y&R in the creative gutter, check.

LOL. I love you. Sincerely! Subjectivity fully acknowledged on my part, by the way!

I love you.

And we have a couple!

LOL, Mark blamed no one for anything.

Mark said that to call Y&R toxic because of this Adam-Sharon stuff just doesn't hold water for me...there is much nastier stuff on daytime.

Y&R is toxic for more than just Sharon/Adam dear, just take a look at the path the show has taken overall this year.

I don't think it is bad or wrong to show this dark, disgusting stuff. It is a lens on an aspect of the human condition. Like Dexter on Showtime. At least GH is vaguely original.

And none of that is Y&R, the show can't go on being something it's not and that it doesn't have the budget to pull off.

And by toxic, I meant more than just tone. I mean the piss poor and inconsistent character writing,the inconsistent and sometimes TERRIBLE day to day writing, the reliance of psychos and shock value, crappily paced storytelling, horrendous execution, TERRIBLE casting, and a lot more of the "little things" that make the "big picture" so awful.

Edited November 23, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner