DAYS: Discussion for the month of November

[Toups]

This is another great post. I just can't hate Nicole. I'm really interested how she'll pull herself back up from this.

You know that this story rocks when the storyline is over and there's STILL MORE beats to be played out - EJ finding out Stefano knew everything and helped Nicole.

I've been anticipating the 4 showdows:

1. Sami/Nicole

2. EJ/Nicole

3. EJ/Stefano

4. Mia/Nicole

We got 2 so far, 2 more to go.

I don't think EJ grabbed her throat. He grabbed the top of her coat and pulled her in. I thought that was pretty powerful scene.

[PhoenixRising05]

Tomlin and Whitesell deserve credit for the story but I credit Higley a great deal (no shock as she seemed to write Nicole in a sympathetic fashion during her 2003 stint too) because she began Nicole's transformation well before Tomlin and Whitesell came. The one thing she and the show did right from Ari's return as Nicole in April 2008 through Tomlin and Whitesell's arrival in October 2008 is the writing for Nicole. We saw her transform before our very eyes and Ari's acting demonstrated how she had grown leaps and bounds since she last left Days. She always showed potential but it was clear she had become a powerhouse. I remember one scene in September 2008 where EJ and Nicole had this talk about all her problems (Victor, Trent, her past, etc) and he mentioned taking her on a real date and treated her the way she should be treated. It was described as some sort of fairy tale to her and Nicole just started breaking down in tears, saying that is all she ever wanted for herself. It was just a wonderful scene and one that certainly helped setup what was to come. Tomlin and Whitesell must have saw something or it was just a lucky coincidence that it all fit together so seamlessly. I'm sure they would've did the story anyway but I'm not so sure Nicole's POV would've been as prominent as it was. Still, I give them all the credit for the baby switch story. They took what had happened the past few months and molded it together into one of Days' best stories in years and one that will create future story for months, if not years. This story got Days through the darkest time in it's history and may have saved it. They deserve all the kudos in the world.

[aMLCproduction]

I hope Mia can bring it like AZ and AS did. I just cant wait until The Mia and Nicole showdown. EJ's reaction was justified. She lied to him.

I just don't like what Nicole did and how she did it. SO many lives.

I concur. THis is one of the best stories for DAYS in YEARS I can't wait to see the ratings

[dc11786]

It wasn't just any baby. Nicole couldn't have children. Suddenly, she was told that, against all odds, she was pregnant. Zucker really went all out with Nicole's miscarriage. Everything leading up to it was just heartbreaking. As someone who came in at the tail end of the storyline, I wouldn't expect you to feel anything for Nicole except if you listened to what she told E.J. today and believed her because that was the truth. Probably the finest moment of the reveal yet, in my opinion.

In a sense, I don't feel as much for Mia. Mia spent lots of time with her real daughter even though she didn't know it was her real daughter. She loved Grace, she spent time with Grace. When Grace died, she grieved the loss of the child she loved. Was it wrong that she didn't know it was her child? Yes. Do I think Nicole is guilty for doing this? Yes, but Nicole knows what she has done was wrong.

On the other hand, Mia got to spend more time with her child when Sami raised her than she ever would have with Nicole and E.J. Nicole made it clear Mia couldn't be around the baby because E.J. would suspect something was wrong. Whereas with Sami, Mia got to watch the child and spend as much time with her baby as wanted. In a way, Nicole did Mia a favor, but even I recognize this is a bit of a stretch.

And the same could be said for Sami for keeping Grace away from E.J. or Mia for giving up her child in the first place. Nicole gave E.J. his child to raise. I don't believe this was a calculated move on her part. I think she genuinely felt wrong for deceiving him about the miscarriage and felt that giving him his child by Sami, which Sami was going to deny him, was better than providing him with Mia's baby, the baby Nicole loved.

No I don't think that women lose babies and snatch other children all the time, but I also don't trivialize the loss of a child. I've met women in the sixties and seventies who still think about the children they lost before they were born. I think it is an important life event and I can see how it would drive someone like Nicole, scared, insecure, and self-destructive, to do what she did.

I don't think Nicole solely thought of herself. In the end, what she did was wrong, but she didn't think that Grace would die. In the end, it made everything a lot more complicated. Nicole isn't heartless, but she also wasn't willing to let go of a child she fell in love with.

[aMLCproduction]

All in all it made for great drama

[DRW50]

What type of writing did Nicole have in 2003?

It did seem strange that Higley seemed to be so sympathetic towards Nicole. I remember at the time Nicole's return was one of the few stories people seemed to like. That and Ava.

I wonder what some of these scenes would have been like if Ari hadn't been pregnant. EJ gets very aggressive with women, so I thought his reaction was in character. I could see him holding back. Which is good, because when soaps go too far with pregnant actresses I get very upset.

This is an interesting story because you hear a lot of, "How can anyone be mad at Nicole when EJ has done worse," or, "How can Nicole be bad when Sami did the same thing." There are many layers, and I'm hoping when Ari returns we will see more of this.

I'd really like to see Nicole in a new romance, not to be "redeemed", but just to see her finally deal with her self-loathing. I wouldn't mind seeing her with Brady. I would say Rafe, as that would be very soapy, but I don't think that would work.

I like the way they have weaved Chloe into this story. The flashback was very well done.

[aMLCproduction]

As someone who came in at the tail end of the storyline, I wouldn't expect you to feel anything for Nicole except if you listened to what she told E.J. today and believed her because that was the truth

You don't know when I came onto the storyline. And I don't have to understand what Nicole is feeling There is still no excuse for what she did plain and simple. I have my opinion and u have urs so please DON"T tell me what u expect me to feel OH and I HEARD EVERYTHING she told EJ today. Still I feel nothing for her.

This is the 2nd time someone tried to come for me in this damn thread because of how I feel about Nicole.

So am I supposed to agree with the masses? I am not going to feel what you feel. We are different people.

[soapfan770]

Nicole in 2003 under Higley was a mess. I believe it was Higley who made Nicole Colin Murphy's "murderer" and being blackmailed by Victor and all that. Somehow she got Larry to take the fall for the crime but on his death bed he told Roman he didn't do it. Somewhere along the line she developed feelings for Brady. I can't remeber if that started under Higley or JER. 2003 was such a mess for Days really, Higley's five month go-around was pretty bad. Victor and Nicole were an interesting pairing in 2002, but once they got married it was all downhill really.

[dc11786]

I know a lot of people were upset that this story didn't happen at a big event, but I love the intimacy of it. The fact it is just a few players now and that the news is slowly having a ripple effect is more my taste. I really wish the EJ/Nicole confrontation would have played out at the Dimera mansion instead of on the docks. I would just have loved to have Kate overhearing the entire conversation so she could make some snarky remarks in the following episode.

I watched the scene again (the one where E.J. first speaks after Nicole has given him everything) and he just had his hands around her face, cupping it. He was probably doing it lightly, but it still left me with an uneasy feeling.

I think Higley deserves a bit more credit than you are giving her. The storyline was pretty much in place by the time Whitesell was being credited and the Sami/Nicole rivalry was in place for quite some time. Also, I think Nicole's POV had more to do with Alison Sweeney's maternity leave than anything else. They knew that Sami was going to be in Witness Protection, so Nicole was really going to have to carry the storyline. I will say though, I was rewatching the scenes where Nicole told E.J. she was pregnant and Sami called her a liar and forgot how completely different Nicole was written before. I do remember her as a snarky one-woman Greek chorus delightfully messing with people (I remember her calling the police on Sami when she broke into the Horton cabin when she thought Chloe left Allie by herself), but damn she was a really strong, fierce character. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just feel more of Higley's 'grounded in emotional conflict' in the story than Whitesell's campy writing from OLTL and SuBe.

Also, Higley tends to be such a long term planner I really doubt Whitesell and Tomlin didn't come in with a massive amount of projections and stuff they didn't pull from. Hell, I suspect the initial Nathan/Melanie conflict ("She sent my cousin to prison!") was originally suppose to be used for Higley's Melanie/Will pairing. Honestly, I think Tomlin and Whitesell tweaked the material, giving more of a prominent focus on Mia and eliminating what I felt would be the next chapter of the Sami/Nicole baby saga: the revelation Nicole was Melanie's mother. I swore I remember scenes with Nicole and Trent talking about a child Nicole had when I was watching briefly in the summer.

I do credit Whitesell for making the transition smooth. Higley never seemed to know what to do with characters when a storyline was aborted, while Whitesell seemed to move the some of the revamped stories in a much less messy manner.

Funny, I remember a year or so ago, everyone writing "Days of our Lives" off as the next "Guiding Light" because of the cast purge. What "Days" did though was fairly smart. While "Guiding Light" eliminated its middle tier, "Days of our Lives" put all their money on them. Lucas, Chloe, Sami, and Nicole carried the show with E.J. and Daniel for the better part of the year.

[PhoenixRising05]

Basically, all the stuff soapfan770 said happened (except Brady and Nicole never got really hot and heavy until JER although you could tell it was going to happen at some point anyway). Yes, the stories blew for Nicole for the most part BUT she was still written as sympathetic. I mean, the woman was trying to kill Victor and used Rolf's (who Rex and Mimi had accidentally killed) corpse to help make it appear Larry Welch was dead so he could help her and, she was still written in a sympathetic fashion. Higley basically put Nicole through a whole three months worth of Victor locking her in rooms and verbally abusing her. They really laid it on thick. I guess what I'm saying is that Higley just seems to want Nicole to be rootable. She did in 2003 and she did that in 2008 well before Tomlin and Whitesell, who clearly want her to be too. You can tell everyone behind the scenes is on the same page regarding the character. Actually, you can tell that is the case with all the characters. That is what Days has that no other soap doesn't right now. There is no interference from the network or some other outside force and those in charge all hold to one vision. That is the way it should be and, hopefully, the way it will remain.

[PhoenixRising05]

Oh, I do think some of it was in place before Tomlin but I think the idea behind doing a baby switch was all them. It's right up their alley. I remember there was no plan in place for Ali's maternity leave until around the time Tomlin came in and, shortly thereafter, Higley was praising the plan her, Tomlin, and Whitesell came up with for Ali and the big story they had planned so it's clear all three came together on it. Higley probably took what she had done and planned and then worked with the other two and it just all came together. I do think most of the story was Tomlin and Whitesell though. I give Higley credit (believe me, I was one of the few giving her credit for anything during her first few months back) for how she wrote Nicole when she returned and for setting up some of the key elements to the story but I do think Tomlin and Whitsell are responsible for the bulk of the story and, in fact, the bulk of the material from October 2008-present. I haven't felt Higley's presence on this show in any of the stories since January, to be honest. I think she is just an associate head writer posing as a head writer. That is how Tomlin and Whitesell (who are buddies) keep Corday out of the stories and writer's room. They make it look like Corday's buddy, Higley, is still head writer by letting her help out here and there and letting her keep the head writer's title and Higley goes along with it because it's a steady gig and she knows she won't find any other work after all the drama with her in 2008. That is just my thinking though LOL.

[Toups]

I don't.

She may think long term but she doesn't fill in the holes. I'll give you an example. When she was at OLTL, she was suppose to give a story projection to her writing team. So she tells her team: Jessica was molested and has a split personality named Tess. And they were like: Dena, that's one sentence, what's the story? And Dena replies: That's the story. Jess has a split personality.

Dena is notorious for being a lazy writer. She doesn't even write breakdowns while Chris Whitesell does. Heck, I don't even think she writes the thursts - Whitesell does. And that's why I give all the props to Gary Tomlin and Chris Whitesell. Dena is not capable of pacing, and planning, and plotting this well. I think she's acting more as a story consultant (giving ideas and suggestions here and there), but getting a Head Writer bill because she's tight with Corday. I just don't see Higley's fingerprints on the show and I think that's because she doesn't do any of the physical writing.

[dc11786]

I was worried about writing that phrase when typing, but I went with it anyway because I felt it would help capture the essence of the 'journey' of Nicole's experience. The importance of watching daily for the last year, seeing her emotional struggle, and the importance of the fact that what she did (regarding swapping the babies) was for E.J. You had asked how anyone could feel sorry for Nicole. I was explaining myself. Instead of providing my side, I think you took it as a personal attack, which wasn't my intention. I wasn't trying to tell you how to feel, and I'm sorry if read my post that way.

[aMLCproduction]

It's ok. I am just glad this show can get us worked up like this. It's a good thing. It means Days is doing a great job. People on different sides of the fence. It's all good.

[aMLCproduction]

That is too damn funny