Y&R: Eric Braeden update

[Sylph]

OK, a couple of dumb questions. What does it mean to be invested in a character? Why do people comment on characters as if they way they are is their & actor's fault instead of commenting how horrifically written a character is? I see that all the time. It's as if the shift from schizo to dull in Chloe, for example, is Chloe's and Elizabeth's fault and not Hogan's, Maria's or whomever's.

[juniorz1]

Question: Can someone please tell me what the point of this whole baby switch is going to be without Victor on the show?

[Faulkner]

Or what the point of ADAM is without Victor? His whole existence is devoted to his vendetta against Victor. Clearly, the writers are repositioning him as an adversary for Nick and Victoria, which doesn't have *quite* the impact.

[Juliajms]

This was never about Victor for me. It's about Sharon, Ashley and Nick. Victor is having one more child that he wouldn't pay attention to replaced with a grandchild. Ashley is the one losing here in a major, heartbreaking way, while Sharon and Nick find out that the child they thought was a sign of their destiny is still alive.

[alphanguy74]

I don't know. In a way... I'm GLAD this is happening, because as Carl said... Sony had been trying to get rid of high paid vets. So if Braden leaving lets out the budget pressure, and make things safer for Jess, Jeanne, Eileen, and Doug... then I'm all for it. I think the impact on this show might not be so bad. I know that EVERY SINGLE PERSON I know (In real life, not on the boards) is actually GLAD to see him go. My best friend, a couple former co-workers, my mother, my brother, and ME. I think I'm just done with the frustration of Victor being dickhead and ALWAYS winning. He never really loses a battle (Except against Lorie, and that was 25 years ago) so for me, I had just resigned myself to having to put up with the ridiculous windbag of a character which seems to be a vicarious thrill for the ego of the actor involved. And the even more ridiculous stuff I was going to have to look forward to. Him fathering a child at the age of 80.... him beating up a man in his 20's at the age of 85. If Braeden had his way, you know that's how it would go down.

[DRW50]

I don't blame Elizabeth Hendrickson for the changes in her character. She's generally good. When I say invest, I mean that I have to have a certain amount of belief in what a character will say or do for me to care about what will happen to them. For instance, I realized early on there was no point in getting invested in Mary Jane/Patty/whatever, because she was just going to do whatever crazy thing the plot demanded, it doesn't matter whether it makes sense or whether it goes anywhere.

With Chloe, she has gone from a psycho who wanted Cane to a stalker who wanted Billy all along, to a long-suffering wife, someone who had no ties to anyone, then is suddenly Esther's daughter, only for this to be dropped as soon as they generated the necessary pity party over her being a maid's daughter who had to go to boarding school. Now she's just one of Billy's chattel, dating Chance, but clearly still only having eyes for Billy.

[Scryber96]

Once again, new characters are CHEAPER than veterans. You can probably work Ryder, Daisy, and his mother (assuming they don't hire a big name) for what Jill costs in a day.

The big Jill/Neil/Lauren love triangle playing out 5 days a week would break the budget. So they use people like that as filler when they have to. They are not going to write a frontburner story for more than one or two vets at a time, because they can't afford to pay them.

They can however afford to use newcomers who don't cost a lot as often as they want.

Is that really so hard to understand?

[DRW50]

Then they should have just let Jess go entirely. If they try to have it both ways, then naturally people are going to wonder why Jill is basically a glorified extra.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

How is it cheaper when veteran characters aren't being written for and appearing in 3 episodes month (or less, or not once) sometimes? I highly doubt Jess Walton's guarantee is 2-4 episodes a month. Using Walton as an example, her contract is set and so is her salary, and her contract cycle isn't up yet. I highly doubt her episode guarantees are 2 episodes per month.

So, instead of using what they have, they bring on more actors, in addition of having to pay the salaries for their veteran cast. Where is the sense in that?

Who is saying anything about playing those characters 5 days a week? Hell, they could be used twice a week in a very B or C level storylines, and it wouldn't go over guarantees and it wouldn't create a need for constant additions of new characters and actors.

Again, it's all about balance and using what you have. The same 12 characters on Y&R are always getting frontburner story after frontburner story (the majority of which are veterans, btw), while the other section of the veteran cast is either supporting or completely neglected. There's no substantial cast rotation in terms of story on this show.

Again, so they're essentially paying almost half of the veteran cast to sit on their asses and appear on screen for as little as 3 episodes a month or sometime not even once a month, while they constantly create stories for new characters and actors?

What's so hard about putting neglected veteran characters in B or C level storylines and working them twice a week instead of adding a plethora of new characters?

Also, if budget cuts are so severe, and they know they have many characters and actors they don't write for, why aren't some being written off? Instead, they allow Sony the opportunity to wait for everyone's contract to come up so important core characters and actors are forced out completely in worst given scenarios like this one, while non-essential dead weight lingers on and isn't being dealt with and more actors continue to join an already bloated cast, all of this occurring under a slashed budget, btw.

Exactly.

[Juliajms]

I think the answer is to give the vets good stories for the day or two a week they are on. A good writer would be able to pull that off. Since when do we have to see a character every single day in order to care about their story? These actors have already taken pay cuts and they must have minimums, so how about TIIC just use them for good stories on the days they have them.

[Chris B]

Yeah, they are LOSING money not saving it by not utilizing the contract cast. ATWT has a strict budget right now, but they're making the most of it. Most of the cast only appears maybe two episodes a week, but in those two episodes (which are consistent each week) they make sure to move the story and still keep that tune in tomorrow factor. Basically, it takes the filler out, but it's not the rushed primetime style they were telling before. For example, the Riley is Adam story went on for about a year before the secret was revealed, but they never had more than three days, at the most, per week. You don't have to be on five days a week to be frontburner, just use people well when they DO appear.

Y&R has a huge contract cast and so many of them are being paid to sit at home. Kristoff St. John is the best example of that. He's a cheap vet who has absolutely no pull in contract negotiations (he's even said as much). Because he's cheaper they probably give him more episodes per week. When his contract was renewed the writers were actually using him so it's a reasonable assumption. Now he's hardly featured and going months only appearing in 1 episode. Let's not forget Bryton is on contract too. From a money stand point you can't convince me it makes ANY sense to pay these actors to sit at home. They're being paid and so are all these recurring characters and newbies who keep coming on.

Whatever the case, even a show like Guiding Light did that. Kim Zimmer was the star of that show and here they were paying her and not using her. She's their highest paid actress so it was an incredible waste for a show that couldn't afford to waste money like that.

I think OLTL and ATWT do the best job of using their entire cast, right now.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Agreed, that was exactly my point. These writers have to learn the concept of balance and cast rotation. Using these veteran actors, even in B or C level storylines, would create less of a need for an abundance of newbies. No one is talking 5 days a week for months on end, but at least work your veteran cast who've paid their dues to their episode guarantees and their artistic potential. Granted, newbies are always going to be created and cast, but some balance and rotation of stories would create less of a need for them.

I have no sympathy for people who refuse to use most of the episode guarantees of their cast members, create new characters all the time, and keep adding to an already bloated cast list. If you know your show is in trouble financially, why are you adding more to the problem? They still have to pay all those neglected vets (unless they're all fired soon, which I doubt), but now they have to pay them in addition to paying numerous newbies and dead weight characters that could have easily been written out with little fanfare or impact.

[Juliajms]

We posted at about the same time. We are definitely on the same wavelength when it comes to this issue. I have a small amount of sympathy for TIIC because I do think this cast is extremely expensive. Y&R managed to afford this wonderful, stable cast for so long. It really was a luxury and (imo) one of the things that set Y&R apart, along with beautiful production values and good writing. Unfortunately, I think we are witnessing the end of an era as DeeDee said. The only question is how things will change and if the damaged can be mitigated.

[alphanguy74]

Carl, I don't think they specifically want to get rid of Jill. I think things went down the way they did, simply because after the license fee cut, Jess' contract was the first in line to be neogtiated. Melody's was next. I think she was simply in the crosshairs by coincidence. Here's what I think is going on:

1: Sony saw how axing Hall And Hogestyn didn't do any major damage to DOOL ratings, and they were emboldened by that.... so they started licking their chops at the thought of Axing Braeden. So they gave him a lowball offer, knowing full well he'd reject it.

2: It could be that with Braeden gone, there's a good chance that Jill's role will be expanded once again, like they did with Suzanne Rogers. Melody's role, on the other hand.... I think is in the most danger, because she's tied to Braeden. But the Chancellors are being built up, so I don't see them muscling Jill out.

3: I think they are doing this to Braeden because if they try to do it to Jeanne Cooper, the fallout would be FAR FAR more disastrous. Braden is a hard ass... he can take care of himself. If they did it to Cooper, Sony would be seen as beating up on a little old lady. And those bastards probably figure Jeanne Cooper to die or retire in the next five years, so the greedy pencil pushers may just be biding their time.

But here's a question, the OFFICIAL statement from CBS is that the license cuts were neccesary due to the economy and plunging ad revenue. So here's the million dollar question. If the economy recovers.... is the license fee going to go back to what it was? I can almost bet you it won't.

[lmfan]

That is exactly it. CLB has appeared in 40 to 60 fewer episodes this year than actors like Victor, Nick, Jack, Billy, Phyllis and Katherine. There is no way I will believe they have reached his guarantee because he has been averaging less than 2 episodes a week for the year. Now I expect we will be seeing him more because we are getting later in the year and he is well below his guarantee. This week they used him in four shows, two of which he was on for about two to three minutes per show to prop the Newmans. The one time, he had more airtime was when he was with Lauren and Fen at the festival and Likey was used to prop Phyllis and Nick's relationship the entire show. That is poor utilization of the character as they have Michael doing things any dayplayer lawyer could do. It makes no sense. So if they are only using him twice a week, utilize his talent and stop using him to babysit the younger Newmans. It is a waste of talent and poor use of their budget.

And it isn't just CLB. Like Y&RWorldTurner pointed put, use these vets twice a week every week in a B story and they would be able to handle their budget and not alienate fans. I can tell you as a Michael and Lauren fan, I would be happy to see them only twice a week as long as they had something substantial to play rather than constantly being brought on to prop lesser characters.

But you see, this type of writing is harder that just writing for the same few characters five days a week and creating new characters, that nobody cares about, and writing story for them. That's why I don't buy this is all about budget. SONY has decided this show will not be about the vets, but will continue to focus on the younger characters. Now whether they think this will actually work or don't really care if this strategy fails and destroys the show, I don't know.