I am not trying to be daft here, but scared of who exactly. African Americans share a large percentage of the viewing audience and I doubt that they will be offended if there is some representation of self.

They're scared of losing the white audience. They take the rest, even the large black audience, as just minority status, as not being worth the effort.

They're scared of losing the white audience. They take the rest, even the large black audience, as just minority status, as not being worth the effort.

They totally take the black audience for granted. Black people already watch daytime in disproportionately high numbers. So I can see execs thinking, "Why waste energy catering to an audience that's always gonna be there?" I think that's their mindset.

They're scared of losing the white audience. They take the rest, even the large black audience, as just minority status, as not being worth the effort.

That's what I thought, so no matter how large an audience not important enough. Yet I can't blame them just from being on the messageboards it is not hard to notice which actors/characters are given more attention. Even within the fan work there is no diversity.

That's what I thought, so no matter how large an audience not important enough. Yet I can't blame them just from being on the messageboards it is not hard to notice which actors/characters are given more attention. Even within the fan work there is no diversity.

I don't really think that attention on message boards is what indicates an audience. That just indicates those who make the most noise.

I think that minority audiences, as well as older audiences, are treated with contempt by those in charges of TV, and of soaps. It's an, "Oh, yeah, it's you," type of reaction. They assume these demos will always be there, or that they aren't important. They want teenage or college age viewers with a lot of income. They think the way forward for those demos is young, vapid, bland white faces.

It's the reason why, if you only read the magazines, you would think Gossip Girl and The Hills are the most popular shows in America.

I don't really think that attention on message boards is what indicates an audience. That just indicates those who make the most noise.

I think that minority audiences, as well as older audiences, are treated with contempt by those in charges of TV, and of soaps. It's an, "Oh, yeah, it's you," type of reaction. They assume these demos will always be there, or that they aren't important. They want teenage or college age viewers with a lot of income. They think the way forward for those demos is young, vapid, bland white faces.

It's the reason why, if you only read the magazines, you would think Gossip Girl and The Hills are the most popular shows in America.

I can understand that the African American audience does tend to watch white programs simply because there is no other choice but to watch. Tptb make just mistake the noise makers as the majority as I have witness through storyline until by some surprise what is happening online doesn't translate in the ratings and vice-versa.

WOW First of all I'd like to applaude you for starting this thread (I never start threads on SON) I don't know why I think because I would read such profoundness here I was kinda intimidated years ago people really know their business here. Then once I felt I could hang with the big dogs on the front porch. Most of my thoughts had already been posted (like this) LoL...

I was only inspired to start this thread because I wanted to continue the conversation. I'm sure the Christel Khalil thread will be gone and forgotten but this topic deserves its own thread.

I think what bothers me the most is there is a MAJOR difference in attitude and commitment from the network and the writers towards minority characters and also occasionally from the fans. It's so much harder to get the audience to get behind minority characters. When a minority character doesn't translate right away or is perceived as unpopular, or unnecessary they are treated as expendable with the first inclination is to get rid of them. On OLTL's Vanessa and Lola were very unpopular and within 6 months they were gone. By contrast, Stacy is even more unpopular and she's still here with a new friend and a baby on the way. I don't think I've ever seen a character who was a minority and unpopular receive expanded attention like that. What's the difference?

The network is just not invested in minority characters to the same degree that they are invested in non-minority characters. Evangeline's character was mentioned as an example of a character who was written poorly and though I strongly disagree, I do believe they were invested in her character to the point where many of us still believe she can return at any moment. I think they are invested in Rachel since she has been recast so many times but it's very unusual to recast a popular minority character. I think they are invested in Lily Winters obviously but I wish they would invest in Neil and Devon as well. I don't think Neil ever recovered from the Victoria pairing but he is one of daytime's longest standing black characters. That's kind of sad when you think about it.

They think the way forward for those demos is young, vapid, bland white faces.

Horrible actors like Adrienne Frantz, Michael Graziadei, Emily O'Brien, Greg Rikaart & Daniel Goddard constantly garner huge fanbases for their pairings no matter how stupid they are & are rewarded with frontburner airtime just cause they're white.

White actors/characters can be pedophiles/rapists/attempted murderers & STILL be considered romantically viable.

Edited October 6, 200916 yr by DeeeDee

Horrible actors like Adrienne Frantz, Michael Graziadei, Emily O'Brien, Greg Rikaart & Daniel Goddard constantly garner huge fanbases for their pairings no matter how stupid they are & are rewarded with frontburner airtime just cause they're white.

I disagree with this. I think actors who are popular on set are the ones who garner airtime. From all accounts, Billy Miller and Daniel Goddard are the "Good time Charlie's" on the set. and the Bell's LOVE Frantz... I think not only popularity, but how easy and pleasant the stars are to work with might determine who gets front burner. The crew jsut likes to keep the difficult pain in the asses stuck up in their dressing rooms as much as possible. And I DO agree that daytime takes it black audience for granted. I can just imagine some pencil pusher at Sony thinking to himself... "Our sponsors arne;t selling acrylic nails or crack pipes, so why should we care?" And you KNOW that kind of sh!t is going through those bean counter's minds. I felt 3 months ago people were bitching too much for no reason, they needed to wait their turn, but at this point, it HAS been too long and I feel the black characters are officially neglected, not just "rested".

Edited October 6, 200916 yr by alphanguy74

I think actors who are popular on set are the ones who garner airtime.

If that were the case half the cast who are frontburner wouldn't be.

Doug Davidson's well liked & up until a year ago he was on the backburner for the better part of 3 years.

From all accounts, Billy Miller and Daniel Goddard are the "Good time Charlie's" on the set.

Miller is talented but TPTB have used him way too much & have pushed him way beyond his range the last 6 months.

Goddard's had a ton of romances & been constantly frontburner since Day 1 despite having the charisma of a ruptured pus geyser.

Same for Graziadei & Rikaart.

Yet no matter how many of those characters onscreen relationships tank, no matter how many crimes their characters commit, no matter what repellent things their characters do, no matter how many vets are thrown under the bus to prop them TPTB will continue to write for them & give them a free pass for being young & white.

Their minority peers?

Not so much.

and the Bell's LOVE Frantz...

If Brad loves Adrienne so much let him take her howler monkey ass back to B&B.

Actually, lesbian stories on various primetime shows have shown rating spikes, while gay stories haven't so I disagree that less people want to watch lesbian stories. I think lesbians are more acceptable in general so people are less likely to stop watching a show because lesbians are brought on. And Otalia became hugely popular despite poor writing and a lack of affection. That spoke volumes.

I'm a straight woman and I was at one time a big fan of Bianca on AMC and liked some of her romances and many of the fans of her relationships were straight. And I do remember AMC getting a ratings boost from the Bianca and Lena story.I think many open minded women like good romances regardless of the gender of those involved. I'd say your mainstream audince is still more comfortable with two women than with two men, although that is changing thanks to stories like Nuke and Kish. I remember somebody told me that her mom, a straight women, would sometimes watch the L word but got uncomfortable watching two men kiss.It seems strange but its a good exampe of that double standard. I think the comparitive lack of gay women may have to do with the lack of women whatever their sexual orientation in positions of powr in the industy in comparison to gay and straight men, and the fact that so many writers still write and view women as revolving around men.

think what bothers me the most is there is a MAJOR difference in attitude and commitment from the network and the writers towards minority characters and also occasionally from the fans. It's so much harder to get the audience to get behind minority characters. When a minority character doesn't translate right away or is perceived as unpopular, or unnecessary they are treated as expendable with the first inclination is to get rid of them. On OLTL's Vanessa and Lola were very unpopular and within 6 months they were gone. By contrast, Stacy is even more unpopular and she's still here with a new friend and a baby on the way. I don't think I've ever seen a character who was a minority and unpopular receive expanded attention like that. What's the difference

It's true. White characters are given more second chances and much more likely to be shoved down our throats despite the fact that they are unpopular. I don't think that if Babe on AMC was a minority character she would have lasted past the height of her unpopularity during the babyswitch.

Edited October 7, 200916 yr by RomeAt50

I can just imagine some pencil pusher at Sony thinking to himself... "Our sponsors arne;t selling acrylic nails or crack pipes, so why should we care?" And you KNOW that kind of sh!t is going through those bean counter's minds.

I felt 3 months ago people were bitching too much for no reason, they needed to wait their turn, but at this point, it HAS been too long and I feel the black characters are officially neglected, not just "rested".

The problem is that, while Maria/Hogan/Scott/Rauch could care less about their neglect of non-straight, white characters, it's completely and blatantly made more obvious by the fact that the show as a whole just sucks.

Initially, my theory was that Maria and Co. were just playing it too safe, out of offending their black viewers until they figured out what to do with the characters. But the simple crumb here and there, the dissing of Kristoff St. John by giving him three months off, and the Tyra/Devon rompfest was truly disgusting and offensive.

The attempts at diversity all across the board and ESPECIALLY at Y&R are utterly laughable.

The way blacks are treated on Y&R by this team seems more like outright hostility than anything else. I don't want to make it seem like MAB is not at fault, because this is supposed to be HER vision, but this does seem like Rauch's track record.

Speaking of lesbians, I was watching my Friday Night Lights S1 DVDs Saturday afternoon and was shocked to see that the mayor of Dillon is a lesbian. I consider myself a pretty die-hard fan of the show, but somehow, the issue was treated as such a non-issue that I never really noticed her feeling up her ladyfriend when she had Coach and Tami over for dinner. And now, speaking of FNL, that was a show that did good of job of integrating its lone main minority character (Smash) with the rest of the show, though his major storyline in the first season ('roids!) kinda islanded him. I loved the little touches, though, such as his Mama being the one to tell Tami she was pregnant and Coach making random visits to the Williams home. With the show moving to the "other side of town," this season, I think we may be getting more in the way of black and Latino characters. AMC's Michael B. Jordan joins the show, so who knows.

You telling me I have to watch Friday Night Lights for Micheal B. Jordon. I miss him so much. Can you tell me what time & day it comes on?

Edited October 7, 200916 yr by MoTheGreat

If they had to do the lame Janet/Liberty intro on ATWT, it would have been at least interesting to have let them be black, Asian, Latina, or otherwise. I think Michael Park would've worked well with any number of daytime's underused actresses of color. Instead Janet, Liberty and that damn sister are just another trio amongst the gaggle of anonymous white folks on that show these days.

I never cared for Evangeline on OLTL, and I think her exit and Kish were the best things that ever happened to Layla, who would never have developed if she was still around. While REG was a beautiful woman and talented, I felt Evangeline as a character was another Lily-type, and then she was neutered further in that classic daytime way so as not to offend anyone, and then made sanctified a la Y&R's Christine or Natalia Livingston's Emily on GH. I don't think that's a good model for any character of any race, and I thought her two interracial romances, while perhaps laudatory by virtue of their very existence onscreen, were poorly written and acted, the way any other bad story with a same-race couple would be. Also, OLTL seemed to use Evangeline's character as a bludgeon to ward off criticism, or doing anything else with anyone else the audience might care for. No time for Layla, or for the Gannons, who audiences genuinely loved and cared for - the attitude was, who needs minority characters with personality when you have Evangeline making out with the leading men? I feel that's the same kind of blackmail Y&R now practices with Lily.

I have no problem with Evangeline. She's was better then CKLily. She had something going for her outside of who she was going to bed next. The only time I could have done without Evangeline her paring with Cris. What does Lily got going ofr her nothing. Everything is about a guy for her.

Anyway I watch ABCfamily channel for Lincoln Heights. I love that show. Way better then anytjhnig on regular TV.

The networks not only have a problem writing for black characters that are gays it seems if they not CK they have a problem writing for just black people period.

Edited October 7, 200916 yr by MoTheGreat

You telling me I have to watch Friday Night Lights for Micheal B. Jordon. I miss him so much. Can you tell me what time & day it comes on?

Yep. He was also on some lame short-lived sitcom on The-N (now TEENick) a few months ago, but that was lame. He's joining FNL this season, which starts on DirecTV in a few weeks. NBC is airing it in the summer, but you best believe I'll be watching it before then, and I definitely don't have DirecTV.