39 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I do wonder what Marland's plans for the family would have been. Neither Josh nor Trish give any Dallas vibes for me. Josh gives much more disaffected Californian vibes. I also don't remember Josh and Trish being nearly as close in what I've seen of that era (admittedly not a ton) as the Lewises became after Long arrived.

You know I do too. As much as I love Marland, I can't envision his Billy being as dynamic as Long's. And I suspect Josh would've remained more of a hothead/jerk, with stable older brother Billy reigning him in, much like the Seth/Holden relationship he wrote on ATWT.

Trish and Josh were close---they just weren't overinvolved in each other's lives. Trish wasn't forced into the "little mother" role of the Lewis family until Reva blew into town. 

4 hours ago, P.J. said:

 

Trish came to town first, around June 1981. But she had been mentioned long before that. Vanessa was telling Sarah in therapy that Trish was married to Andy Norris, and that Andy had abused her. (Andy was dating Katie in Springfield, who was Sarah's assistant/nurse which nowadays would be putting Sarah in an awkward position) 

The Lewises as a family started getting mentioned around this time, HB and Billy by name, and they are supposedly coming to town during this time. A deal with Lewis Oil is also the focal point of Diane Ballard's machinations, as she blackmails Henry (with the knowledge he fathered Quinton) into pressing HB into terms more favorable to Spaulding before she's killed.

Josh came to town in October 1981. The backstory of Josh being hustled by Andy and Leslie Ann (aka Candy) for half a million was written by Marland. He created Josh as the black sheep of the family, where Long turned it around and made Billy into the screwup and Josh as more of the romantic loner.

The Lewises as a family aren't considered "loud" or "invasive" until Billy and Mindy show up in May 1983. Granted, I get the "loud" part. I think the invasive critcism is mostly a reaction to other vets getting written out and Reva's arrival when the show pushes her front and center.

Thank you for responding.   Just to clarify -- are you saying HB and Billy were mentioned by name even before Josh arrived in Springfield?  And certainly while Marland was head-writer??  That is amazing information, because the oil-rich Lewis family, as written by Pam Long, certainly did not seem like any family that would have been created by Douglas Marland.   I enjoy hearing details like this -- so thank you, again.   

45 minutes ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Thank you for responding.   Just to clarify -- are you saying HB and Billy were mentioned by name even before Josh arrived in Springfield?  And certainly while Marland was head-writer??  That is amazing information, because the oil-rich Lewis family, as written by Pam Long, certainly did not seem like any family that would have been created by Douglas Marland.   I enjoy hearing details like this -- so thank you, again.   

Yes. On a quick scan of eppys, Trish mentions Josh to Mike on 9/3/81 and Vanessa and Henry talk about a meeting with HB on 9/4/81. I can't immediately find a reference to Billy before Josh arrives, but in one of Josh's first convo's with Trish, he mentions Billy.

There's not a lot of details about them, other than HB and Henry have been friends for years, and Trish describes her and Josh being bored during dinner as HB and Billy talk business. Marland plotted a year in advance, so it doesn't surprise me as much that the Lewises were at least mentioned. On ATWT, he would foreshadow new business people like Darryl Crawford and Damian Grimaldi coming to town all the time.

Marland has them coming into money much later than Long did. Trish tells Mike that she wasn't "born" into money like Vanessa was, getting rich when she was 12. Under Long, HB hit his first oil well when Billy was a toddler, and Sally invested money in his company. 

14 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Long had a better handle on the Reardon family, even though she was the person who wrote most of them off the show?   I realize Long wrote the entry of Jim Reardon. But otherwise, didn't Long write-off the Reardon family one-by-one until only Maureen remained in Springfield?    

Long actually did write the Reardons better then Marland, under her pen the Reardon's were specifically said to be Catholic (under Marland they went to a minister..which made no sense..) and they had a warm, feisty dynamic that Long writes so well...(Beth tells Lillian when she is estranged from her over Bradley that the Reardon's are the kind of family she would like to be in..."I mean, they argue and fight all the time but its not like at our house..angry and mean..." I also remember when Roxie was taken off to the nut house, Chelsea is astounded that the Shaynes aren't together that night, she mentions her family would be and Mindy agrees her family would too, and Rusty and Phillip look like the thought hadn't crossed their minds.) that is why it is weird that she did write them off one by one and never made an attempt to rebuild them ( when she came back Lawson was back as Bea on recurring, and then she just disappeared...) Maybe she gave the Lewis' family that warm boisterousness and saw no need for another family like that?

1 hour ago, Mitch64 said:

Long actually did write the Reardons better then Marland, under her pen the Reardon's were specifically said to be Catholic (under Marland they went to a minister..which made no sense..) and they had a warm, feisty dynamic that Long writes so well...(Beth tells Lillian when she is estranged from her over Bradley that the Reardon's are the kind of family she would like to be in..."I mean, they argue and fight all the time but its not like at our house..angry and mean..." I also remember when Roxie was taken off to the nut house, Chelsea is astounded that the Shaynes aren't together that night, she mentions her family would be and Mindy agrees her family would too, and Rusty and Phillip look like the thought hadn't crossed their minds.) that is why it is weird that she did write them off one by one and never made an attempt to rebuild them ( when she came back Lawson was back as Bea on recurring, and then she just disappeared...) Maybe she gave the Lewis' family that warm boisterousness and saw no need for another family like that?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I wasn't watching GL regularly enough during that period to notice details like that.  I was always surprised Long wrote off the Reardons.  They were a big working-class family full of flawed individuals with different personalities.  Hell, a good writer could have created an entire soap opera just about the Reardons.  

4 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I wasn't watching GL regularly enough during that period to notice details like that.  I was always surprised Long wrote off the Reardons.  They were a big working-class family full of flawed individuals with different personalities.  Hell, a good writer could have created an entire soap opera just about the Reardons.  

Nola and Tony were probably not staying around long anyway (although Lisa Brown might have if Kobe and Long hadn't deemphasized the character), so the most she would have been left with was Jim, Bea and Maureen. 

22 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Nola and Tony were probably not staying around long anyway (although Lisa Brown might have if Kobe and Long hadn't deemphasized the character), so the most she would have been left with was Jim, Bea and Maureen. 

I can fault Long and Kobe for a fair amount of(although I thought GL was very entertaining between 83-85 compared to GH and SB), but Nola and Quint were played out, domesticated IMO.  Lisa/Nola was quirky and fun but couldn't quite pull it off as a married heroine. 

22 minutes ago, VelekaCarruthers said:

I can fault Long and Kobe for a fair amount of(although I thought GL was very entertaining between 83-85 compared to GH and SB), but Nola and Quint were played out, domesticated IMO.  Lisa/Nola was quirky and fun but couldn't quite pull it off as a married heroine. 

I think they would have been difficult to write for (nothing about Quint would suggest he was a great idea for a long-term character), but the show doubled down on some even worse choices (like bringing in a ward and reshaping Quint as a scientist).

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

I think they would have been difficult to write for (nothing about Quint would suggest he was a great idea for a long-term character), but the show doubled down on some even worse choices (like bringing in a ward and reshaping Quint as a scientist).

Did Marland create Quint?  If so, I can almost bet he never intended Quint to be a long-term character. Probably one or two big storylines, and then OUT.  But I could be wrong.  

3 minutes ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Did Marland create Quint?  If so, I can almost bet he never intended Quint to be a long-term character. Probably one or two big storylines, and then OUT.  But I could be wrong.  

He did.

I know the original long-term plan was Kelly/Nola, then they changed course when Quint and Nola became popular.

I wonder if the Mona story would have involved Quint's departure tragically had Marland not left?  I know that Marland quit when that story was getting under way... and the brief writing teams that came in before Pam Long took over.. had to figure out how to write/conclude that story.

1 hour ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Did Marland create Quint?  If so, I can almost bet he never intended Quint to be a long-term character. Probably one or two big storylines, and then OUT.  But I could be wrong.  

Marland wrote all kind of gothic melodrama for Duncan and Shannon on ATWT. So that type of character wasn't out of his wheelhouse. I don't think Marland would've made him Henry's son if he didn't intend on having him stick around for some amount of time.

Beecroft doesn't seem like the kind of guy who sticks around in the same place long. Whether or not Brown left because of the way Marland exited is anyone's guess. 

3 hours ago, VelekaCarruthers said:

I can fault Long and Kobe for a fair amount of(although I thought GL was very entertaining between 83-85 compared to GH and SB), but Nola and Quint were played out, domesticated IMO.  Lisa/Nola was quirky and fun but couldn't quite pull it off as a married heroine. 

I don't think Marland would've made Quint/Nola as "perfect" for each other as they were though. This is the same guy who used Josh to break up Kelly and Morgan after all. 

10 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

 Maybe she gave the Lewis' family that warm boisterousness and saw no need for another family like that?

I think Long (or someone) tried to build back other families as the Lewises cycled in and out of town. They tried the Bauers with Johnny and his family, Long definitely tried the wacky Shaynes. Fletch and Lilian gets sisters, then we get the Coopers. I think some bad casting and some lackluster story (or both) doomed a lot of that.

I am not sure Marland would have created a big family around Josh and Trish. He always loved giving his characters detailed backstory. I could see HB and Billy visiting during some Spaulding Enterprises drama. 

Sometimes I wish Marland would have moved ahead with the Kelly-Nola marriage. He told that story with Jack and Ava on Loving. Quinton was fun, but Nola was supposed to be like Delia on Ryan's Hope, all about the drama. She got her happy ending way too soon. 

Marland also tried to tell the Scotty-Laura-Luke story he didn't get to tell on GH, with Kelly, Morgan and Josh. 

16 hours ago, VelekaCarruthers said:

I can fault Long and Kobe for a fair amount of(although I thought GL was very entertaining between 83-85 compared to GH and SB), but Nola and Quint were played out, domesticated IMO.  Lisa/Nola was quirky and fun but couldn't quite pull it off as a married heroine. 

I agree on this...I think Quola as they were called were one of the first crazy fan bases! I think saddling Nola with two kids was wrong at the start, but they could have saved it by having her constantly pushing the kids on Bea, and she would be the one pushing Annabelle into the investigation of the Cottage and then it was Quint who gets blown up and not Hillary.

They had the chance to save it when she returned, I would have had it that Quint was missing during a dig and Nola comes back a rich widow.  I get why Rauch wrote Quint off but they should have given them an ending (Quint wants to go back to his digs, Nola wants to stay in the states and have her own life for a change) and of course, not make Nola a depressed sap.