2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

If they were going to write out Elizabeth, I would have had her find out about Justin and Jackie, but around the same time learn she was terminally ill. That would have been very heartbreaking, all her conflicting emotions, and as she likely wouldn't want Philip to see her die, slowly easing herself out of his life.

Since they didn't do that, there were decades they could have brought her back, but the show was so focused on Philip as just Alan's son that they never explored any other avenues. There were times Philip would disown Alan or plot against him but even then they'd never really mention Philip having other family, aside from Ross. I'm all for stories that present a close bond between an adoptive parent and child as soaps often do a terrible job with this type of relationship, but GL went all in...

Potter also should have worked much harder in finding a strong Jackie recast. Clearly they just didn't give a damn about Jackie.

I agree. The way she was written out was stupid. A terminal illness would have been better than having her leave a child she had raised, loved, and fought custody for with his natural parents and just vanish. They could have also written she has a mental breakdown over the revelation and has to be put in an institution. She would emerge years later back to Springfield.

Yes, the Jackie replacement actress was blah. Cindy Pickett really made that character. If Jackie had been brought back from the dead I would loved to have seen Pickett return to the role. If not, someone like Dee Wallace might have been able to work as a recast.

Carrie Mowery, like Jennifer Cooke seems to have been chosen for looks over talent.

GL really was in turmoil at that point-the Marland/Potter clashes, PFS and then LVB gone after 13 week runs, Potter leaving etc.

Seems like CBS and P&G were running scared. SFT and AW were both seeing constant writer changes also.

Another re-uploaded 1979 episode.

I think Lezlie Dalton's choices (the fragility, the breathiness and so forth) made sense, given the kind of woman Elizabeth was at that point in her life. After all, she was introduced as Alan's trophy wife, lol.

Also, I know I'm biased when it comes to Douglas Marland and his work, but I don't blame him for not doing much with the Jackie/Justin/Elizabeth/Alan storyline during his time on GL. I still believe the circumstances behind Philip's paternity and adoption were convoluted; and given how Marland had faced a similar situation previously at GH - specifically, writing out Heather and untangling the mess behind Steven Lars/P.J.'s surrogacy and adoption, which he disliked publicly - I could see why he wanted to avoid it on GL.

Edited 18 hours ago18 hr by Khan

48 minutes ago, Khan said:

I think Lezlie Dalton's choices (the fragility, the breathiness and so forth) made sense, given the kind of woman Elizabeth was at that point in her life. After all, she was introduced as Alan's trophy wife, lol.

Also, I know I'm biased when it comes to Douglas Marland and his work, but I don't blame him for not doing much with the Jackie/Justin/Elizabeth/Alan storyline during his time on GL. I still believe the circumstances behind Philip's paternity and adoption were convoluted; and given how Marland had faced a similar situation previously at GH - specifically, writing out Heather and untangling the mess behind Steven Lars/P.J.'s surrogacy and adoption, which he disliked publicly - I could see why he wanted to avoid it on GL.

Elizabeth being fragile is the reason I suggested she could have been written out as having had a mental breakdown. She was emotionally abused by Alan through their marriage, she falls in love with Mike, but can't be with him because of Alan poisoning Phillip against him to keep them apart, and the ultimate blow would be discovering the son she raised was not her biological child.

5 hours ago, DeeVee said:

SERIOUSLY. I don't know who would have been available to produce the show at the time. As for writers, probably the thing to do was try to get the Dobsons back, but I'm pretty sure they were at ATWT during this period, and then they would have left anyway to do SB.

I've never understood hiring people who have killed off shows. Maybe they felt that because Texas was a newish show that never found its audience it wasn't the same. But soaps have always been pretty incestous, they just keep rotating the same people from show to show.

Oh, you mean they can't blame that awful ending of the Rebecca/Mark Evans story on scabs? YIKES.

I know we speculated that the "strong HW" problem GL brass had was exclusively with Marland, but I wonder if something about the Dobsons also rubbed brass the wrong way. The "decentralization" theory they shifted to seems an overreaction to a barely two year stint by one hw.

Maybe the brass agreed that it wasn't Kobe/Long's fault (Texas lost a million viewers when Bev left), but it wouldn't seem to merit a promotion either. (which it arguably was, since GL was much higher rated, even with their revolving door of HWs)

Eh...it's awful, but the Mark/Rebecca story got the ending it deserved. Death and rather quickly forgotten.

4 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

BTW had Pat Falken Smith stayed longer with the show, I am sure she would have brought a Stefano Dimera/Max Dubujack type for one of the show's leading ladies. (Perhaps Vanessa?) Perhaps Alan would have been her Stefano/Max.

I'm grateful GL stayed away from the Stefano DiMera type of villain. GL villains usually had an expiration date. One of the reasons I hated the lingering San Christobel crowd was that they overstayed their welcome.

4 hours ago, DeeVee said:

Alan was best when he was stirring the pot with people's personal lives. In the beginning he was not really a criminal in the sense that he wanted to get richer, he mostly got pulled into criminal activity because of personal issues, like doing the baby switch.

I agree---Alan going after people who've deliberately or inadvertently stepped on his toes was always more entertaining. Mostly because (I guess) that came from a character perspective rather than some loopy plot heavy story like the art theft.

2 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Carrie Mowery, like Jennifer Cooke seems to have been chosen for looks over talent.

I would say it was less about looks and more about making Jackie a more conventional soap character. When Pickett played her, Jackie had a boho-quirky vibe, even when she was Mrs. Spaulding. Marland stripped Jackie of everything that made her Jackie. She became one of the holier-than-thou crowd, when Jackie was anything but before that.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

I still believe the circumstances behind Philip's paternity and adoption were convoluted; and given how Marland had faced a similar situation previously at GH

That comes with the territory of being a soap writer. You don't like the story, bring it to a quick end, make sure you play all the beats, and then move on. That's basically what Long did as best she could considering Jackie was dead and Elizabeth had been off the canvas for a long time.

18 minutes ago, P.J. said:

I know we speculated that the "strong HW" problem GL brass had was exclusively with Marland, but I wonder if something about the Dobsons also rubbed brass the wrong way. The "decentralization" theory they shifted to seems an overreaction to a barely two year stint by one hw.

Maybe they were looking at GH again and seeing how a strong EP like Monty was bringing in the ratings. Monty also did some things that the writers (including Marland) didn't like, but for the most part she overruled them. Kobe was like that in some ways, so maybe that's why they wanted her at GL.

2 hours ago, Khan said:

Also, I know I'm biased when it comes to Douglas Marland and his work, but I don't blame him for not doing much with the Jackie/Justin/Elizabeth/Alan storyline during his time on GL. I still believe the circumstances behind Philip's paternity and adoption were convoluted; and given how Marland had faced a similar situation previously at GH - specifically, writing out Heather and untangling the mess behind Steven Lars/P.J.'s surrogacy and adoption, which he disliked publicly - I could see why he wanted to avoid it on GL.

Good point. Marland also faced that issue when he arrived at The Doctors and there was the"Matt accused of mercy killing story' which he attempted to continue. He said he learned from that to pull the plug on a story that wasn't firing. Now in the case of GL, the baby switch was working but he probably wasn't enthused on having to spend a lot of time on a plot he wasn't that invested in.

Maybe with Cindy out the door, Jackie should have been the one with the illness so she decides to hand over Phillip to Elizabeth, who then takes off with him when Dalton departs. Then in 83 Phillip returns wanting to reconnect with Alan.

57 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

Maybe they were looking at GH again and seeing how a strong EP like Monty was bringing in the ratings. Monty also did some things that the writers (including Marland) didn't like, but for the most part she overruled them. Kobe was like that in some ways, so maybe that's why they wanted her at GL.

Interesting point.

3 hours ago, DeeVee said:

Something, anything. There was just no way it was believable that she found out the truth and thought she had no right to raise Phillip anymore.

As far as Alan, yes. Elizabeth, no. She acted like Phillip HAD to be with his natural parents. Why? She fought so hard to get custody. Not only had Alan lied to her, so had Jackie, who had insinuated herself in their lives only so she could be near Phillip. Then she married Alan with the sole purpose to take custody away from Elizabeth. She should have been HOPPING MAD at Jackie.

Yes, yes, Marland wanted to be rid of Elizabeth. Fine. Then, yes, a terminal illness or even better, a sudden accident, would have taken care of that, rather than this absurd storyline where Alan inexplicably gives custody to Justin and Jackie.

There was ONE time I recall that Phillip told Justin he loved him. That was when Pennock was playing the role.

I agree the show only seemed to care about adoption being more important than blood ties with Alan and Philip. Maybe if they had ever brought Elizabeth back the same would have been the case with her, but Marland didn't seem to have a great deal of interest in Alan's role there either. You could say this is because he wanted Alan to be focused on the fling with Rita and rebuilding his marriage, but Philip still could have been involved. They could have even have Hope resent Philip because she feels like Alan cares more about him than about Alan-Michael.

I can see why the story could have been too convoluted for him to want to continue, but it never plays out that way to me in the available episodes. That may have changed after Cindy Pickett's exit, but even then, a continued focus on Philip would still seem more compelling to me than writing him out so Justin/Jackie could be catspaw in the Carrie story (which I find much more confusing than anything with Philip).

Hi all- jumping in for some history help. Can someone remind me who these older characters are, like from the 60s-

Leslie- who is she?

And is it Bert or Meta married to the drunk guy? And I know Bert was Ed and Michael's mother, so is this drunk guy their father? Except they have an adult son interested in Leslie and the ages don't seem right....

Papa Bauer was the drunk guy's father? Sorry, I can't remember his name.

I really like the Leslie character and actress, shame there aren't better quality clips around.

Just trying to connect these characters to the more recent Bauers, I think I forgot it all.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by Keri

51 minutes ago, Keri said:

Leslie- who is she?

Leslie is the daughter of Dr. Steve Jackson, the doctor with the white hair and accent.

Bert is married to Bill Bauer, the tall, drunk guy. Yes, Bill is Michael's and Ed's father.

Papa Bauer is Bill Bauer's father.

Maybe the ages of children/parents seems a little off because of SORASing (Soap Opera Rapid Aging Syndrome--children are aged fast so they can participate more in storylines).

Thank you! I couldn't remember Bill's name, I'm terrible with names. Okay- and Leslie ends up being Rick's mother. Coming back to me now.

Yeah it's just Bill's son - who is Ed- seems to be practicing medicine in 1966, and still going in the 90s lol. Doesn't ever seem to age past 40 or 50. This is what was throwing me off trying to figure out who is who.

I still find the storyline- bits and pieces - around the main family really compelling. Not so much into the whole Peggy and Johnny stuff.

I've come across radio episodes here and there from earlier and am always tempted to check it out but haven't yet.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by Keri