5 hours ago, Vee said:

I remember an unbelievably interminable Thanksgiving sequence where Justin and Sara McIntyre cook dinner which seemed to be half-improvised and desperate to fill out the hour. It was like slow cinema.

I thought I was the only one who felt that way about that scene, lol!

I remember someone commenting on that 1977 Thanksgiving episode about Elizabeth's hair " Whoa it looks like Toni Tennille found her big rollers"

1 hour ago, Khan said:

I thought I was the only one who felt that way about that scene, lol!

I thought I was having a fever dream at one point. I swear it went on like 10-15 mins. I kept checking the timestamp. It had almost no seemingly scripted lines at one point and it was like I was just watching these two mother!@#$%^&*]ers cook a turkey. Like they ran short on the script that day!

7 hours ago, Vee said:

Am I crazy or didn't several eps from '77-'78 resurface in the last few years? 

AFAIK only two 1977 episodes and a partial 1978 episode have surfaced.

22 hours ago, Vee said:

I know you guys go over this a lot and I feel bad asking about the obvious things, but this still fascinates me. I know some of the story of course like losing Charita Bauer, Lisa Brown, etc. or cutting certain vets (like Roussel and Don Stewart I believe), but what left them up shít creek so fast?

It boils down to bad management. After the Dobsons were shuttled off to ATWT (which didn't work), there's literally no consistency in the head office. If they got a writer, they'd ditch talent. If they had talent, they hemorrhaged writers. Because they ditched talent, they wrote for a bunch of newbies. Because the newbies sucked, the writers got canned. It's a vicious cycle. (The same thing happens in sports teams when there's a constant head coach turnover.)

It's no coincidence that Y&R, who rises through the '80s, is a model of consistency. I don't think Bell was a better writer than Marland, but he had the creative control. Y&R had it's own look, it's own style, and the viewers fed on it for YEARS.

Other shows had bad luck, or lost popular performers, or had performers come and go and come back. GL even managed to right the ship for a while under Long's second stint/Curlee era. But it is shockingly unstable for the last thirty years. 

CBS/P&G were shaken by 1978-1982 ABC big three huge rise and domination, thus the changes to the shows.

8 hours ago, Vee said:

I remember an unbelievably interminable Thanksgiving sequence where Justin and Sara McIntyre cook dinner which seemed to be half-improvised and desperate to fill out the hour.

There are some good scenes in that episode! Alan and Elizabeth are staying at Jackie's soon after they arrived in town. Mike shows up. (It's hilarious watching Mike and Alan act friendly with each other knowing later they become dire enemies).  

Mike blatantly flirts with Elizabeth while Alan is reading his paper and he doesn't seem to give a sh!t, LOL. Later, Alan goes to Cedars for a check-up and ends up with Sarah as his doctor. He's condescending to Sarah, clearly not crazy about being seen by a woman doctor, while at the same time flirting with her. 

Millette Alexander is so great in that scene--she looks like she wants to tell him to pound sand, but she behaves very professionally and graciously. I suspect they were chem testing them.

I must have fast-forwarded through the turkey cooking scene. 😂 But I think it's interesting that Sarah and Justin were a thing for a while.

Edited October 11Oct 11 by DeeVee

51 minutes ago, P.J. said:

It's no coincidence that Y&R, who rises through the '80s, is a model of consistency. I don't think Bell was a better writer than Marland, but he had the creative control. Y&R had it's own look, it's own style, and the viewers fed on it for YEARS.

Here's the thing about Y&R: Bell took a big chance swapping out his main core families (the Fosters and the Brookses with the Newmans and the Abbots). They took a hit in the ratings for a while, but the change caught on because the Newmans and Abbots were better suited to the era (glamorous rich people in the 80s). But from then on, yes, the show was very consistent--especially how they totally refrained from trying to copy the things that made General Hospital a success. I'm convinced that's why they climbed to #1 and stayed there for so long.

After years of watching pretty much every soap on the air at one time or another, Y&R was my last soap opera (until Beyond the Gates premiered). It's not that I liked Y&R better than other shows, necessarily, but I knew they weren't going to do crazy stuff like clone and time travel stories. I think that had a lot to do with their long-term success.

27 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

 

I must have fast-forwarded through the turkey cooking scene. 😂 But I think it's interesting that Sarah and Justin were a thing for a while.

Actually.. .when Justin first came on, it was revealed that they were a couple until he dumped her to go with Jackie (most likely due to her father being a well known doctor).  That was his story his first few months on the show before Jackie showed up with her dad and it being revealed that he did the same thing to her that he had previously done to Sara.

I was surprised that the show went back to testing Sara/Justin again in late 1977, but I think this was the period after her hubby Joe passed and before she ended up with another unsavory character.

3 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Actually.. .when Justin first came on, it was revealed that they were a couple until he dumped her to go with Jackie (most likely due to her father being a well known doctor).  That was his story his first few months on the show before Jackie showed up with her dad and it being revealed that he did the same thing to her that he had previously done to Sara.

Right, I forgot they had a backstory! Yeah, Justin was a womanizer and kind of a jerk at first. When they brought on Ross, Justin became the more mature and wiser brother.

5 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

I was surprised that the show went back to testing Sara/Justin again in late 1977, but I think this was the period after her hubby Joe passed and before she ended up with another unsavory character.

I remember Joe having the heart attack (played by Anthony Call--loved him on OLTL). Then she marries Alan's corrupt lawyer, who bribes and then kills a witness in Alan and Elizabeth's divorce case--which is what Roger uses to blackmail Alan later on.

That decision to quickly marry Sara off to Dean Blackford was an odd one. Poor Sara was now on her 3rd marriage and it was destined to be shortlived and a dead end story wise.

That was sort of the end for Millette, who had been a popular heroine for 10 years. It seemed like the Dobsons weren't that interested in the character and she floundered around for the rest of their tenure.

Doug Marland aged up her son and married her again to Roger's dad which seemed like one of those convenient match up of vet actors to give them something to do.

And Sara continued to be diminished until she was gone.

Did Millette choose to  leave or was she dropped? Was Sara given a farewell or just stop being seen?

Millette was in her late 40's at the point but presented older to me. Her hairstyle aged her. Compared to that 1974 episode where she still looked youthful and attractive and leading lady material.

This is an article from 10 years ago (my apologizes if it has already been posted) - but interview with Jordan Clarke - who was working as handyman once Guiding Light went off the air

https://www.buzzfeed.com/davidkushner/my-handyman-my-soap-star

8 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Did Millette choose to  leave or was she dropped? Was Sara given a farewell or just stop being seen?

She left to resume her musical career. She's a very talented pianist. (In fact, I believe I read somewhere that she was the one who actually played the piano whenever Amanda was shown playing the piano).

I don't know if it was out of frustration because she wasn't getting much air time or if she just wanted to go back to her other career, but the story given was it was her choice.

I'm sure Marland would have kept her around as the therapist for his many, many neurotic female characters. She left just before the Kobe regime came in. If she had stayed, she probably would have been swept out by them. So she got out at a good time.

Edited October 11Oct 11 by DeeVee

There was a Christmas 1982 episode floating around where Sara was talking about moving and missing everyone so I assume she was gone by January 1983 at the latest.

I think the Dobson's used Sara quite well during their writing regime and keeping her focused on through 1978/1979 at least.  Marland seemed to be the one to move her more into the supporting realm with her stories being as a therapist, her files being taken by Andy Norris, marrying Adam Thorpe, and just worrying about her son.

By late 1982, she was just a diminished background character that probably would have survived the first year of the Kobe/Long era (since the hospital was a strong focus until late 1984).. but more like a supportive talk to like Katie ended up being as well.

11 hours ago, DeeVee said:

Here's the thing about Y&R: Bell took a big chance swapping out his main core families (the Fosters and the Brookses with the Newmans and the Abbots). They took a hit in the ratings for a while, but the change caught on because the Newmans and Abbots were better suited to the era (glamorous rich people in the 80s). But from then on, yes, the show was very consistent--especially how they totally refrained from trying to copy the things that made General Hospital a success. I'm convinced that's why they climbed to #1 and stayed there for so long.

After years of watching pretty much every soap on the air at one time or another, Y&R was my last soap opera (until Beyond the Gates premiered). It's not that I liked Y&R better than other shows, necessarily, but I knew they weren't going to do crazy stuff like clone and time travel stories. I think that had a lot to do with their long-term success.

I'm by no means a Y&R historian, but even with Y&R switching out families, they kept their juiciest (arguably) rivalry, Kay vs. Jill. It still leaned into a familar family dynamic-- the Fosters became the Williamses, and the Brooks the Abbotts, with Jack and Ashley subbing in for Laurie/Leslie.  

After it was clear they couldn't mimic GH's mystery/adventure vibe (the Dreaming Death, Infinity, the Valere affair---although in retrospect, Infinity is not nearly as bad as it's infamy suggests) they did what ATWT under Marland was doing---went back and mined their own history, bringing back Long and refocusing on the core of the '80's--the Spauldings and Lewises. If there's one character who rivals Reva for "defining" the last 25 years of Guiding Light, it's Phillip.

Bell had a vision, and he stuck to it. GL rarely had that luxury.