4 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

Oh Contessa...now you know how the rest of us sometimes feel ...though we may not say it....plus, I prefer to be annoying then boring!!

Well, I can certainly appreciate that. And, for the record this is the only time I have even thought boring and you in the same thought. So, there is that, which in this case is considerable!

4 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

Oh - PJ - regarding 1993...

I understand where you're coming from, but I do think overall that 1993 was a decent year for the show.  As you stated, worth watching as the Peter custody trial (culminating in the fantastic court scenes of February/March 1994).  In addition, tho, I think the David/Kat/Vinny story holds up pretty well, as does Ed/Michelle/Holly.  Cliff House was good.  And while there are cast changes, there's still plenty of great actors present.  Yet, those stories were pretty much wrapped up by September 1993.

Yeah, Buzz quickly becomes a dirge, Lucy and Tangie are busts, and the revisit of Nick/Mindy is uninteresting (playing itself out in 1992).

Unlike apparently everyone else in existence, I liked the actor who finished out Billy's storyline.  He wasn't Clarke, but I thought he did well.

I also thought Bess - Brandon's secretary who came on maybe in October 1993 - was a solid addition.  Loved when Bess would give Dusay's Alex a hard time and corner Alex with her wheelchair (for example, "You liked the sex, didn't ya?", referring to Alex/Roger). 

I think when most fans now talk about Guiding Light and it's acting, the first name that springs to mind is Zimmer. It's not her fault, she won four emmys and certainly deserves her accolades. But it overshadows everyone else from that era. Even icons like Beverlee McKinsey and Michael Zaslow.

On the male side, depending on how long you'd watched, it'd probably be Zaslow, Bernau or Aleksander, or even Justin Deas. Then you'd get to actors like JvD, Mart Hulswit, Don Stewart, Jordan, Robert Newman--guys who were there a long time, and never phoned anything in. I think for the most part, most fans liked Billy. And make no mistake, Billy's a tougher role than it looks--there are times Billy is an out and out [!@#$%^&*]. But (at least IMO) you were never forced to like Billy, unlike Reva who always got a big scene where the town ganged up on her and she's cry about how unfair it all was and how she had just lied (or whatever) because she loved Josh so much.

OTOH, Billy's alcoholism was usually the root of his problems, but he never got the same kind of pass--he had to earn his forgiveness. I don't know why he had never gotten a emmy nomination before his win---JFP was a block voting guru in the early '90's, and Jordan has some heavy emotional material. There's a scene after Bill ran away in '92 (after finding out about Van/Fletch) where Billy's at an AA meeting, (after being a rock for Van) where he's just at the end of his rope that breaks my heart. (nowadays it would be called emmy bait) I don't know if personal politics got in the way of a nomination, if the leading/supporting male categories are just that tough at the time, or he kept himself off like Peter Simon

While I think Roger's return was a sure-fire hit, I think it works so much better because of his conflict with Billy. Ol' Roger was running laps around that town outwitting the residents and playing them like violins. Even Alex. But Billy had his number and unlike Ed or Ross, he had a wider latitude in how to deal with people he didn't like. (It might've been different if Phillip hadn't left in '91, he'd learned at Alan's knee how to deal with enemies)

A lot of first half of '93 works for me too. I've got Billy and Van working their way back together, the Peter story, Melissa Hayden is outstanding as Bridget, and the denouement of the Buzz and Nadine reveals at Frank and Eleni's wedding---is one riveting week of must see tv.

But there are issues---Barbara Crampton is badly cast as Mindy. And the Nick/Eve/Mindy tale just doesn't work for me. I don't like Holly and Roger re-hooking up, and it was a very controversial story that didn't go over well with a lot of fans. It was one thing to kind of ignore Roger's rape of Rita on his return, but they had reminded us how brutal his rape of Holly was. She'd spent three years bristling at him and railing about how he'd ruined her life. While Bridget busting up Dylan/Julie's wedding kind of echoed Nola turning from villainess to heroine, Dylan and Julie are just a basic bland couple.

My issue with Geoffrey Scott isn't as much about him (who I loved on Dynasty), as it is that he's just not Jordan Clarke. Scott can dress up in suits, drawl y'all or "Darlin' : Vanessa all night and buddy around with Josh---but he's not Billy. He's not awful--certainly not as bad as say Ron Raines taking over as Alan (or my personal most hated temporary recast, Sonia Stuart popping in for Maeve Kinkead over the years). But he's not Billy.

13 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I'm not entirely sure, but I think she just wanted a break. When she returns there are long periods where it does feel like they are trying to push her out, but maybe I am just being paranoid.

You mean when they dress her to look like someone's Mom trying to copy the look of a soap opera character (Van is not Nola but she would never dress like a frump)  Or when Matt is chasing Hottie Beth and Van instead of kicking him to the curb, ponders if she needs plastic surgery? Or when they put her in a coma with Carmen's bad poison lip balm and she has to just lay there for weeks while people talk over her?  Not paranoid at all but why did Rauch bring her back from her leave unless that was in her contract.

I heard she left on the leave for a combo of reasons,she felt that Van's story was over once she got with Matt (disagree) she had hip surgery I think (hence the bed)  and problems with Moniz...all rumors of course.

8 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Well, I can certainly appreciate that. And, for the record this is the only time I have even thought boring and you in the same thought. So, there is that, which in this case is considerable!

But not the first time you thought "Annoying" but I 'm good with THAT!!!! : )

 

4 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

But not the first time you thought "Annoying" but I 'm good with THAT!!!! : )

No comment. 

26 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

Blame JFP and Buzz...Nadine was connected but once the "Super Duper Cooper" take over of 93 (?) she was stuck in that diner (as we were) pining over Buzz while Deas threw his hands up, Frankie D stood there with a blank look in his face and NuEleni was just wondering when she would get some lines. Did anyone besides the Coopers (and if you havent seen Deas over acting when he finds out that Nadine has been fish food for months you aint seen nothing yet) react to her death? Bridget, Nadine, Ed (who was Billy's counselor during his marriage to Nadine..

LOL at this - I've thought the same thing about nuEleni. At least Frank joined the police academy and is now a cop during the Marian storyline, because that finally brought some energy back into his character. Heck, his partner Cleary has more lines and screen time than Eleni. As I watch Frank and Cleary zero in on Marian, I'm starting to pick up a Mulder/Scully (X-Files) vibe, especially with Cleary's red hair. It would have made sense given X-Files' growing popularity in the mid-90s.

I'm going to watch out for the Nadine death reactions and let you know. I have a feeling its coming up very soon during my watch.

1 hour ago, alwaysAMC said:

Ahh - so Ed is AM's great uncle? That makes more sense now, considering a close scene they had during the July 4th Bauer cookout. So what happened to Hope? AM never really mentions her.

Did the actress playing Bert pass in real life, hence no longer on the show, or did she have an exit storyline written for her?

That iconic catfight scene between Vanessa and Nola was clearly paying homage to this iconic I Love Lucy episode, where Lucy and Ethel realize they're wearing the same dress and start angrily picking pieces off each other.  So funny!

Yes, Ed is Alan-Michael's great uncle. Hope divorced Alan in '83, and never came back to town. During the decline of her marriage to Alan, she'd succumbed to alcoholism like Ed ad her grandfather Bill. She's living off-screen in NY near Mike (I believe), but A-M never mentions her much, other than to say growing up with an alcoholic was hard.

Charita Bauer passed away in '85 (I believe) after developing cancer. She had to have a part of her leg removed, and they wrote it in to her character's storyline. Josh is paralyzed in '83 after an accident, and she and Josh are rehabbing at the same time. Bert gives him this great inspirational pep talk, which I think is one of her last appearances. From what I've gathered, she was sicker than anyone really knew and passed rather suddenly.

I'd actually never seen that I Love Lucy episode. I'm not a huge fan, and my knowledge is kind of limited to the chocolate candy factory and stomping grapes. LOL. I know there are only so many stories and ways to tell them, but GL never shied from copycatting anyone. Nola was constantly in some movie fantasy, Josh/Reva/HB/Billy play out Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, and I've come to think of Billy/Vanessa's wedding/Alex's arrival as a Grand Hotel/30's screwball comedy mash-up.

37 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

Is that when Nola brought a Hula Hoop to the funeral. Why did anyone in SF or especially Salem ever go  to a funeral when a body was not recovered. "Fool me once, shame on you,"

I don't know...I don't think I've ever watched the entire thing. There's that ridiculous painting of Van (which I guess is supposed to be the "warmer" side of her...) which distracts me. Billy, as I recall, doesn't get to say much, and as I can't stand Matt, I focus on Ross' eulogy, which is just beautiful. He talks about how long he'd known her and Henry, and how even though he'd looked into her eyes a thousand times, what he'd miss most is not being able to look into them the thousand and first. (or something like that, it's been a while since I watched it.)

A hula hoop sounds like Nola, but it might've been Henry's funeral. Although that one is most spent in dealing with Quint.

Yes....the car is burned beyond recognition, but here's a perfect golden ring as proof you're loved one is really dead-dead. *sigh* Then again, I love the idea of Vanessa freed from that doofus and able to breathe the clean refreshing air of Switzerland. At least for a while.

30 minutes ago, alwaysAMC said:

LOL at this - I've thought the same thing about nuEleni. At least Frank joined the police academy and is now a cop during the Marian storyline, because that finally brought some energy back into his character. Heck, his partner Cleary has more lines and screen time than Eleni. As I watch Frank and Cleary zero in on Marian, I'm starting to pick up a Mulder/Scully (X-Files) vibe, especially with Cleary's red hair. It would have made sense given X-Files' growing popularity in the mid-90s.

I'm going to watch out for the Nadine death reactions and let you know. I have a feeling its coming up very soon during my watch.

BTW, i'm not sure if you got an answer but Charita Bauer who played Bert did die. IRL I mean. Before that her health was in decline & her age was advanced. So her death was not a surprise. It was just a good thing that she got to work as long as she did. 

 

A little off topic but I have just finished reading the oral histories about Ryan's Hope and Texas.  I couldn't put them down!  So interesting to hear from all the actors and behind the scenes folks.  How do we go about getting one for Guiding Light and the other soaps?

11 minutes ago, EONGLOLTL said:

A little off topic but I have just finished reading the oral histories about Ryan's Hope and Texas.  I couldn't put them down!  So interesting to hear from all the actors and behind the scenes folks.  How do we go about getting one for Guiding Light and the other soaps?

Tom Lisanti always is working on one & thinking about the next two he wants to do. So, basically it's a matter of getting him interested in what you are interested in. He said next up is For Richer, For Poorer & the AW 90 minute show, which was a debacle.

He has plans to revisit REUNION which was what TEXAS was originally meant to be. 

He's in my soap opera group on Facebook. 

I know at one point he read the entire TEXAS topic here on SON. And he came away from that with his feelings definitely scorched. The error on the hospital name he had fixed in the kindle version. There may have been other fixes.

Edited April 30, 2025Apr 30 by Contessa Donatella

35 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Yes, Ed is Alan-Michael's great uncle. Hope divorced Alan in '83, and never came back to town. During the decline of her marriage to Alan, she'd succumbed to alcoholism like Ed ad her grandfather Bill. She's living off-screen in NY near Mike (I believe), but A-M never mentions her much, other than to say growing up with an alcoholic was hard.

Charita Bauer passed away in '85 (I believe) after developing cancer. She had to have a part of her leg removed, and they wrote it in to her character's storyline. Josh is paralyzed in '83 after an accident, and she and Josh are rehabbing at the same time. Bert gives him this great inspirational pep talk, which I think is one of her last appearances. From what I've gathered, she was sicker than anyone really knew and passed rather suddenly.

I'd actually never seen that I Love Lucy episode. I'm not a huge fan, and my knowledge is kind of limited to the chocolate candy factory and stomping grapes. LOL. I know there are only so many stories and ways to tell them, but GL never shied from copycatting anyone. Nola was constantly in some movie fantasy, Josh/Reva/HB/Billy play out Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, and I've come to think of Billy/Vanessa's wedding/Alex's arrival as a Grand Hotel/30's screwball comedy mash-up.

Thanks on the A-M and Hope background!  

Oh how funny, her real last name matches her character's last name. That scene you reference was actually a flashback in the '95 Christmas, where Bert and Josh were in wheelchairs, how sweet that was.

I need more I Love Lucy fans in my life   I'll have to see if SON has a topic already for this show.

11 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

BTW, i'm not sure if you got an answer but Charita Bauer who played Bert did die. IRL I mean. Before that her health was in decline & her age was advanced. So her death was not a surprise. It was just a good thing that she got to work as long as she did. 

 

Yep, PJ just answered too  Thanks, and agree, love to see them having the chance to work as long as they can/want!

2 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

I adore & appreciate Jordan Clarke but there is no way in the scene you describe here to compare the two. It's not even fair to put him to that test. His part is but a fraction of hers, which is as it is meant to be. You do him a grave disservice by posing this as a challenge which he is doomed to lose. Beverlee McKinsey (not McKinsee you get that she has a double ee but you have the wrong place for it.) Here he plays the supporting part of Mindy's father but Beverlee is playing the lead role, a protagonist, up against Clarke & Zaslow, who both play their parts magnificently. That should be enough.  For me it is. 

Who is this actor & why did Jordan Clarke leave? Was this one of his personal times when he had to get himself in shape?

 

I don't think the comparison is a disservice to Jordan. Yes, Beverlee is mesmerizing as the antagonist, taunting Billy and reveling in the thought of destroying the image of Mindy that Billy had. It's a self-destructive masterpiece. 

But I think we can all think of times when one actor manages to suck all the air out of the room during confrontations. It's a credit to Jordan that he doesn't let that happen in this instance, and is so effective in the less flashy role. If you don't believe this is ripping Billy right down to his foundation, then the scene isn't as effective.

The actor who replaced him was Geoffrey Scott, who had most notably been on Dynasty. Jordan was fired after being arrested on drug charges.

Edited April 30, 2025Apr 30 by P.J.

5 minutes ago, P.J. said:

I don't think the comparison is a disservice to Jordan. Yes, Beverlee is mesmerizing as the antagonist, taunting Billy and reveling in the thought of destroying the image of Mindy that Billy had. It's a self-destructive masterpiece. 

But I think we can all think of times when one actor manages to suck all the air out of the room during confrontations. It's a credit to Jordan that he doesn't let that happen in this instance, and is so effective in the less flashy role. If you don't believe this is ripping Billy right down to his foundation, then the scene isn't as effective.

The actor who replaced him was Geoffrey Scott, who had most notably been on Dynasty. Jordan was fired after being arrested on drug charges.

Thanks. It was the drug problems I was thinking of. It is to his credit that he came back from that & also to the show's credit that later they gave him another chance. And, we as fans get the benefit of both!!

And, yes, I get everything you're saying about his nailing down his role, which in some ways was  harder.

 

27 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Tom Lisanti always is working on one & thinking about the next two he wants to do. So, basically it's a matter of getting him interested in what you are interested in. He said next up is For Richer, For Poorer & the AW 90 minute show, which was a debacle.

He has plans to revisit REUNION which was what TEXAS was originally meant to be. 

He's in my soap opera group on Facebook. 

I know at one point he read the entire TEXAS topic here on SON. And he came away from that with his feelings definitely scorched. The error on the hospital name he had fixed in the kindle version. There may have been other fixes.

I can't wait to read his next book!!  I think NBC at that time was a mess!  I hope he gets more books out before many of the talent behind and in front of the cameras pass away.

1 minute ago, EONGLOLTL said:

I can't wait to read his next book!!  I think NBC at that time was a mess!  I hope he gets more books out before many of the talent behind and in front of the cameras pass away.

Definitely a mess!

It's a race against the clock.

 

2 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Definitely a mess!

It's a race against the clock.

 

A race against the clock for sure!