Guiding Light discussion thread

[DRW50]

Those are great ideas. They really did not do much of anything with fallout for Ed. I have a feeling it's because JFP thought he was right to cheat so why punish him.

Gracie returning for Nola and Nola having a purpose beyond being sour would have been a nice balm.

[Spoon]

In a time before YT, I was so excited to see Nola return to the show.  Quint/Nola were among my earliest soap memories, watching alongside mom.  Such a mishandled opportunity with her return.  We do get some solid scenes between Nola and Roger in 1996 for our AlwaysAMC to look forward to if they keep watching.

Edited Wednesday at 04:40 PM by Spoon

[Mitch64]

The show needed some comedic lightness, what with Brent concking Nadine on her head, rape, stalking, no matriarch..Josh being downright nasty to Reva when she returns, etc. McTavish did do good stand alone comedic scenes, Marj and Hawk (as dumb as having Alex using Hawk to spy on people, Marj and Gil were great at comedy..though it did get a bit AMC'ish) and a short one with Marj, Hawk and Nola when Nola was trying to get the use of the Spaulding Greehouse for Mattesa's wedding, and she tricks Alex into it..(by tripping Hawk into dumping something on Alex so he woudl have to drop his lawsuit against her..."Your work quick honey, I will say that"

We just needed more of that...more Nola and less Iva Snyder.

[chrisml]

I know it gets thrown around, but I never had the idea that JFP likes women very much. Her creative decisions and her backstage behavior speaks for itself on that matter. I don't always want to be criticising her because I did like a lot of her work on SB. I thought SB had some phenomenal moments with the acting, directing, and musical choices. However, short-term or long-term plotting was never JFP's biggest asset on that show and it just got worse as she went to other shows. Her "drama brain" (as she calls it) confused shock value for real emotional drama. 

I think GL suffered because you had producers post-Calhoun who simply did not like women. Liz Keifer talks about this a little in her interview with Locher, but that's always the vibe I had post-Calhoun. There was a mean-spiritedness sexist attitude towards a lot of the show that was not always there when I was watching consistently. Every storyline seemed to revolve around the male characters and how the story would benefit them.  Maybe others who watched regularly will disagree but that's always the vibe I got. 

[j swift]

@chrisml I’d encourage you to take a look at the actresses who received awards during Jill Farren Phelps’s time as producer. I did a bit of a research dive a couple of years back, using awards as a way to gauge both industry recognition and broader appeal.

What I found was interesting: more women than men received acting honors during her tenure, and notably, many of the winning actresses were older. So, the recognition wasn’t limited to the typical damsel-in-distress roles—we saw a broader range of women being acknowledged.

That said, awards are just one way to look at things. I’d be curious to know if you spot any other trends in the data—especially if the observations are based on facts rather than behind-the-scenes speculation, or the based on the experience of actors who may be bitter because they were fired, regardless of who did the firing.

 

[Spoon]

Lots of men marrying the younger daughters of their enemies (Ross, Roger).  Even the Peter Reardon custody storyline was dominated by Roger's POV

[TEdgeofNight]

JFP’s best friends in life are women. Do research. And some of her best friends are the women who starred on the shows that she produced. 

[chrisml]

JFP was good with the Emmy system and she got people Emmys or nominations.  Talented actresses can do great work in sexist storylines or storylines that are primarily focused on the men. Likewise, talented actresses can do phenomenal work in non-sexist storylines and never get noticed because they do not do bloc voting or play the system.  To be clear, just because a story is focused on a man does not make it sexist. When a show's stories are almost always focused on the men's point of view, then it becomes a problem. I've watched enough of her shows to know that when she comes on, the female characters will lose IQ points and become desperate for a man. The level of violence aimed at women will also increase and the the stories will be told almost always from the viewpoint of the men.

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[TEdgeofNight]

Jill Farren Phelps got Ellen Parker an Emmy Award! The decision to kill off Maureen was brilliant. The story, the fallout, the writing. So many deserved Emmy Awards. 

[Vee]

Jill was a master of gaming the Daytime Emmys system. That's well known and old news. As for women, she only liked those she brought in or could model after herself onscreen (often right down to the haircut - ask Hillary B. Smith or Florencia Lozano). The rest had a body count.

I do think the idea of a reversal (writing Ed out non-permanently but for a time in some horrible mishap, letting Maureen keep the house and maybe be tempted by Roger, etc.) would be very interesting considering all the sympathy Maureen generated in the affair storyline.

Edited Wednesday at 09:10 PM by Vee

[j swift]

Far be it from me to ask anyone to rehash old gossip about Ms. Phelps being the only executive producer ever to attempt influencing the notoriously inscrutable Daytime Emmys.

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Rather, allow me to clarify my point: I’m suggesting that if one examines the storylines and performers nominated during her tenure, might there be any substantive reflection of the oft-repeated accusation that she harbored misogynistic tendencies?  Because if she was trying to sway the Emmy voters to focus on selective writing and performances.  It gives us insight into what she wanted to promote, and if that aligned with her alleged misogyny. I am merely asking if anyone has insight into that data?

Like many here, I don’t place much stock in the Daytime Emmys as a meaningful barometer of quality. I only referenced the awards as a relatively neutral indicator of which stories and performances were at least considered noteworthy by the industry at the time.

Edited Wednesday at 09:52 PM by j swift

[chrisml]

But JFP would never have told that story.  Look at the stories that were told after Maureen's death on GL and you know that kind of story would never have happened under her watch. Eve going psycho over worthless Nick is the kind of stuff she sees as dramatic and interesting. Even my favorite SB story before her firing (Robert/Eden/Cruz) was forced on her and then she did a one off Christmas episode told from Cruz's point of view of how miserable he was about the whole thing. That's her M.O. Even during that storyline, there was a scene where Cruz manhandles Eden so much during a "love" scene (the cave scene) that there was a lot of criticism because Eden had recently been raped.

I've been going through old soap magazines/tv guides the last few weeks. There were letters to the editors complaining that Maureen was not getting enough screen time (I posted one of them a couple weeks ago). The viewers wanted more of Maureen in 1992. Michael Logan even wrote about her being underappreciated (as he did about Susan Seaforth Hayes who was also fired that yr). The people who watched GL wanted to see more of Maureen. IT was the EP who didn't and used the focus group as an excuse to fire her because she certainly didn't have a long-term story in place--contrary to Nancy Curlee's sales technique interview with Logan.

[Vee]

I feel quite confident that's not what I said.

If one were to do that using the most overwrought language possible, one might consider that substantive reflection yields keen discernment of the same patterns refracted across multiple daytime productions: Another World, where she had multiple women raped and murdered. Guiding Light, where she had multiple women raped, murdered or otherwise killed off. One Life to Live, raped and occasionally killed. Santa Barbara I can't speak to, but I'm pretty sure there were a fair few rapes! After such reflection, one might conclude that the alleged ends really doesn't exclude the means, which were regularly and at times exclusively victimizing women.

We really don't need to play devil's advocate on every single issue. We can leave that to our most dedicated and un-banned tr0llls, who next will probably be advocating for the unsung genius of Dena Higley.

Oh, I know. It's just a nice idea.

[chrisml]

Many women were raped and murdered during her time on SB. Marcy Walker's Eden was brutally raped in one of the most vicious rapes I've ever seen on a daytime soap. It was graphic and disturbing, and to make it worse, they decided to make her rapist her gynaecologist. Just nasty stuff. Women stalked and murdered on GH (in between a lawsuit for firing a pregnant woman). And then it got so bad on YR where they were going to have Jessica Collins's character lie about being raped but the network stepped in and made them change that story. 

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Edited Wednesday at 10:16 PM by chrisml

[chrisml]

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From Michael Logan's June 3 1995 Column: