That... Or people seeing how those re-shuffles ended up in the past. I don't think people are accepting mediocrity, maybe they're accepting reality?

What's the use of accepting reality if the results still stuck? You'd think they'd want to try to fix what's obviously broken before it all eventually dies.

What's the use of accepting reality if the results still stuck? You'd think they'd want to try to fix what's obviously broken before it all eventually dies.

Oh, because results are always going to suck. A miracle of miracles must happen in order for Y&R to have a "storyteller" HW. The probability of that happening is something like 0.0001%. Meaning, it can happen, but the probability is incredibly low.

What happened to that thing you were saying... About how you were going to stop watching Y&R after the summer if it doesn't get better? Something like that?

Bellcurve has it right in that what Y&R is trying to do, JFP does very well. She knew how to do big deaths on a lot of her soaps. She knew how to introduce edgy male characters. She knew how to have fast-paced stories with action. She knows how to budget. She generally knows to hire good actors, although those actors are sometimes not the best fit for the roles. She knows how to do sex scenes. She knows how to phase out vets and phase in people who can take their place. She knows how to crack the whip with actors.

Whereas someone like Sheffer I think just hates soaps period, JFP likes soaps, but isn't really satisfied with the status quo. At her best, she can blend the two together. And I'm not saying I am a huge fan, but I think on a show which is the right fit, she works. The Y&R of today, the Y&R that Sony wants, is a much more clumsy version of what JFP has done for a long time.

Something like a young woman dying the same year as her father, in the same way, she would have been all over that. As it is now, the way the story was told, it was basically carried by Beth Maitland. If Beth had said, "F!ck this," and pulled a Braeden or a Morrow and tanked the whole story, then it would have just died a slow, lingering death onscreen.

Oh, because results are always going to suck. A miracle of miracles must happen in order for Y&R to have a "storyteller" HW. The probability of that happening is something like 0.0001%. Meaning, it can happen, but the probability is incredibly low.

Oh I know, but at least, try to better your show before it finally leaves the air. Which no one is doing. Can anyone say this is the best Y&R can be, even in these times?

What happened to that thing you were saying... About how you were going to stop watching Y&R after the summer if it doesn't get better? Something like that?

I went into this before, I decided I'd still watch the show if these are indeed the final years. It's a big habit to break, and I refuse to let any fanbois push their agendas on to me by saying that I should shut up and not watch if I find no enjoyment. Basically it's a habit, no matter how horrendous the writing and overall show is.

SOAPSFOREVER, in a perfect world, we'd have someone who wrote emotional, character driven storytelling in charge of Y&R and of every other soap on the air.

But if SONY's objective is to produce Sweeps Stunts and flash and trash, well, JFP is a mastermind at that. And pair her with a writer who understands the mandate, but can still respect history.

JFP is good as long as there is a balance of power. JFP on power overload is never a good thing.

And everyone knows GH is all Guza. JFP just produces his vision. And does a damn good job of it.

The point is: JFP's stunts and flash do nothing for the long term ratings. She gets a bump for a week, but can't follow through. The show returns to its dismal ratings, and continues downward. I'm not a fan of DAYS, but at least the uptick they've seen in their ratings recently is protracted and sustainable (or so it appears at the moment). They're building on something, while keeping and growing their audience. That's the whole point. They're getting positive buzz, and doing it on a shoestring. Even Corday has returned to the Bill Bell mantra: put two dynamite actors together with an appealing story and good script, add a waterfall -- and who needs the waterfall? It's the actors and story. Phelps can light the actors, ad her torturous music montages (talk about one note), use her slick camera angles -- it doesn't matter a damn if the audience doesn't buy the story. It will always be about the story, and its emotional connection to the audience. Frankly, it still amazes me that the woman has a job, considering the shows she's wrecked. Keep her away from Y&R.

Considering both Sheffer and Hamner are very active in Y&R's creative direction, Jill looks like a step- up from those two. Not saying I want her at Y&R and only her, but at least she'd budget the show better, cut dead weight characters, and make it all look aesthetically pleasing.

Of course, the trick would be pairing her with a strong HW that has an opposite approach to her. Like Nancy Curlee did on GL in the early 90's.

Bellcurve has it right in that what Y&R is trying to do, JFP does very well. She knew how to do big deaths on a lot of her soaps. She knew how to introduce edgy male characters. She knew how to have fast-paced stories with action. She knows how to budget. She generally knows to hire good actors, although those actors are sometimes not the best fit for the roles. She knows how to do sex scenes. She knows how to phase out vets and phase in people who can take their place. She knows how to crack the whip with actors.

Whereas someone like Sheffer I think just hates soaps period, JFP likes soaps, but isn't really satisfied with the status quo. At her best, she can blend the two together. And I'm not saying I am a huge fan, but I think on a show which is the right fit, she works. The Y&R of today, the Y&R that Sony wants, is a much more clumsy version of what JFP has done for a long time.

Something like a young woman dying the same year as her father, in the same way, she would have been all over that. As it is now, the way the story was told, it was basically carried by Beth Maitland. If Beth had said, "F!ck this," and pulled a Braeden or a Morrow and tanked the whole story, then it would have just died a slow, lingering death onscreen.

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JFP may like soaps, but she doesn't understand them. That's the sad, cold, hard truth. As for knowing how to do "big deaths" on a lot of her soaps, name one. Maureen Bauer on GL? Right, that was a winner!

Considering both Sheffer and Hamner are very active in Y&R's creative direction, Jill looks like a step- up from those two. Not saying I want her at Y&R and only her, but at least she'd budget the show better, cut dead weight characters, and make it all look aesthetically pleasing.

Of course, the trick would be pairing her with a strong HW that has an opposite approach to her. Like Nancy Curlee did on GL in the early 90's.

The mess that GH is today doesn't give me any more confidence in Jill than in Hogan or Hamner, maybe less. It's a moot point, anyway. No way Y&R would consider this woman as an EP.

Maureen's death was actually very well done, for the most part. She should never have been killed, it was a horrible mistake, but the death was well executed (no pun intended).

If Y&R is going to keep going on a killing spree, then she is better at it.

Considering both Sheffer and Hamner are very active in Y&R's creative direction, Jill looks like a step- up from those two. Not saying I want her at Y&R and only her, but at least she'd budget the show better, cut dead weight characters, and make it all look aesthetically pleasing.

Of course, the trick would be pairing her with a strong HW that has an opposite approach to her. Like Nancy Curlee did on GL in the early 90's.

Poor Alvin. I feel never in your lifetime again will you see the Curlee-Phelps alchemy you so desperately seek. Just like the Lemay-Rauch alchemy, Monty-Marland alchemy...they're all done.

The mess that GH is today doesn't give me any more confidence in Jill than in Hogan or Hamner, maybe less. It's a moot point, anyway. No way Y&R would consider this woman as an EP.

GH seems to be all Guza and Frons. Even when Wendy Riche was at GH, Guza's writing was still very much in the vein it is in now. GH, though dark and misogynistic, doesn't seem like a JFP show, at least story-wise. I think if it were, the FOJ's like Rick Hearst and Robin Christopher would have never been let go and without story for most of their time there.

In a perfect world, none of these people should still be active in the daytime industry. Sadly, people don't want new talent and aren't actively seeking it out or training it.

Y&R today seems like a poor man's GH (with all the death and stunts) without the stellar scriptwriting team and deteriorating production values.

The mess that GH is today doesn't give me any more confidence in Jill than in Hogan or Hamner, maybe less. It's a moot point, anyway. No way Y&R would consider this woman as an EP.

Why not?

Because Rauch is doing such a fantastic job with his trashy bright lighting and his greenscreen heaven? Oh yeah, and the acting is just so superb on Y&R these days.

And picking someone with the Bell Pedigree doesn't give me any hope either. Look at how well THAT'S turning out so far!

Poor Alvin. I feel never in your lifetime again will you see the Curlee-Phelps alchemy you so desperately seek. Just like the Lemay-Rauch alchemy, Monty-Marland alchemy...they're all done.

Oh, I know that. LOL!

I'm just not taking a defeatist attitude that this is the best Y&R or soaps in general can be in this climate.

Soaps didn't need big budgets in the 50's, 60's, and 70's to tell really gripping character driven drama. Hell, Ryan's Hope looks like it was produced on a budget of .5 cents, but the story was generally so gripping that it was hard to notice anything other than the tight storytelling. And even then, Labine/Mayer faced tons of network interference, but they still managed to put out a creative and solid product.

Oh, I know that. LOL!

I'm just not taking a defeatist attitude that this is the best Y&R or soaps in general can be in this climate.

Soaps didn't need big budgets in the 50's, 60's, and 70's to tell really gripping character driven drama. Hell, Ryan's Hope looks like it was produced on a budget of .5 cents, but the story was generally so gripping that it was hard to notice anything other than the tight storytelling. And even then, Labine/Mayer faced tons of network interference, but they still managed to put out a creative and solid product.

Oh I'm not disagreeing. I look at FrenchFan's summary today, and tears nearly come to my eyes.

I think it could happen, but it won't happen. I have given up. Now, it's like a lawnmower that you hope has just enough gas in it to go a few minutes longer....and then it is done.

Maureen's death was actually very well done, for the most part. She should never have been killed, it was a horrible mistake, but the death was well executed (no pun intended).

If Y&R is going to keep going on a killing spree, then she is better at it.

I agree, it may have been a long term error on Jill's part, but Nancy Curlee and Stephen Demorest wrote the hell out of it. To this day, I think it was truly the last great written death in daytime. I'm not taking about the long-term effects, but the story itself and how was it executed and scripted.

People like to dismiss it because of what it did over the long-haul, but it was superbly executed and made sense with the way it was written.