Search For Tomorrow Discussion Thread

[katie_9918]

Thank you so much! I originally got into this because I’ve been a true blue GL fan all my life and Jerry ver Dorn’s tribute to Mary Stuart on the sad occasion of her passing set me on the trail of Search For Tomorrow.

 

In a happy (or psychotic - YOU be the judge) coincidence, I am also somewhat obsessed with seeing everything that Will Patton has ever done that’s captured on tape. I’ve accepted the inevitability that some scenes may be lost, but you have given me Patton’s last scenes on SFT.

 

I’m also a huge fan of Matt Ashford, so seeing any of his pre-Days or pre-GH work is a plus (even if his character is a complete jerk, lol) and I so very much appreciate everything you have provided and even all the things I don’t properly appreciate yet, having not gotten to them yet.

 

You are simply wonderful in all ways and I so very much much appreciate all of your contributions to the soap community.

[Soaplovers]

TPTB really didn't value the contributions that performs put toward playing a character, or else why would the show insist on recasting Stephanie and Liza in 1984/1985 when both characters were playing by very popular performers that had that something special.

Seeing the three 1985 episodes uploaded with the first two episodes of Sherry Mathis playing Liza and then the last episode played by L. Gideon... it was like seeing two different characters and probably was jarring.

And the Wendy character of 1982 and 1983 is so vastly different then the character of Wendy in 1985.  It did seem as though the writers were sort of restoring Wendy back to the less scheming version of the 1982 in her finals weeks of her stint in 1985.

Jo also seemed to have more focus/attention by the writers in 1983 then she had in 1985... And that Kate McCleary character in 1983 was so not needed... she was too drab/boring.

[dc11786]

I think Kate was introduced in early January, 1984, for a few reasons. I think the long term plan was to make her Stu's new girlfriend as they had bounced Olympia Dukakis' Barbara Moreno a few weeks earlier. In addition, the original story for Adair was more than likely the revelation that she and one of the Kendall brothers were the parents of Elan, the baby that Travis and Liza were raising. Kate as Tourneurs' nanny/ Sentell housekeeper would give Adair easy access to the house. Also, Stu and Kate together would have had the natural conflict when the custody of said child came into question. 

Wendy shifts in June, 1983, when Wendy and Keith's marriage ends and Wendy starts to show interest in Warren, who is being neglected by his wife, Suzi, who is busy with her psychology classes. Then, she gets pregnant in August, 1983, with Warren planning on dumping Suzi for his pregnant mistress until stumbling upon the fact that Suzi had been bequeathed a significant trust by her late father. Gary Tomlin was headwriter during this period and he had a tendency of taking heroines and turning them into schemers.

When Jeanne Glynn and Madeleine David/Carolyn Franz write, Wendy wavers in 1984, I believe, after they have written out Warren for the first time. She has a brief relationship with Chase Kendall and then she ends up back with Warren while Stephanie tries to pair her with Alec Kendall. Wendy is a schemer by default because she wants to keep Warren by her side; he had escaped from prison. 

In Jeanne Glynn's final weeks, Wendy definitely is in schemer mode because Warren is dead and she has decided to make Suzi pay by going after custody of Jonah. She also has a brief rivalry with Sunny when Wendy twists Stephanie's arm into making her an anchor at the television station. Wendy's last act of duplicity is to keep quiet (at the beginning of Mayer / Braxton) about Warren's confession that he had in fact been gaslighting Suzi for months on end. Cagney confronts her as she prepares to throw the recording into a lit fireplace to destroy the proof needed. In the end, Wendy turns over the tape, reconciles with Suzi, and turns over a new leaf by becoming involved with Quinn. A good chunk of 1985 is Wendy and Sarah Whiting (the newly created daughter of Patti) fighting over Quinn with Sarah becoming more and more manipulative and Wendy more career driven. Wendy and Quinn  were acting as managers for Sarah's music career. 

The Stephanie / Wendy / Bela stuff at the end is ugly for both Stephanie and Wendy. Shaffer's Stephanie is at her most desperate and pathetic clinging to an affair with younger lion tamer turned news anchor Bela and Wendy's motives seem to shift between manipulative and cunning (trying to prove to Stephanie that Bela is trash) to lovelorn (as if Bela could possibly be some great love) by the time Stephanie called Wendy a slut, I think I was ready for it to end. And I'm typically a Tomlin apologist. 

Peluso deserved better. 

[VelekaCarruthers]

Tomlin and Joanna Lee turned SFT around somewhat. When they took over from Cherrill/Bartholemew end of March 1983, SFT was on 164 stations and pulling as low as 2.2/9 rating but hovering around 2.5/10. Tomlin/Lee quickly brought them consistently to 3..3/11 and getting higher than that; and during Tomlin's 11 months or so (first writing stint) the show lost only 6 stations and was still getting consistent ratings in the 3s with share 11 or 12 and sometimes higher. Not sure why Lee was fired, perhaps it was the live show stunt or losing Rod Arrants. But she was a dynamic producer who also had been an established (for decades) television writer. There were mistakes made but I thought she and Tomlin made a good team.When Lee was replaced by Barrett in late October 83, she kept Tomlin through mid-March 84 when he was moved by P&G to help Richard Culliton on AW as co head. Big mistake IMO.  That duo was a disaster at AW (even tho I liked some of their stuff) and we ended up with no head writers then Sam Hall/Gillian Spencer (another AW disaster). Culliton was always a mess of a head writer. They should have left Tomlin at SFT, particularly since they brought him back after Mayer/Braxton folly. It amazes me to think how P&G played roulette with SFT writers/producer but left inexperienced Sheldon and Nicholson (who was only as good as his head writer and casting director) in place at Edge when they destroyed 15 years of Henry Slesar's great work in a matter of months.  Same with AW where Dorthea Purser was doing a great job after tutoring under Soderberg. Anyway, Barrett tried to turn SFT into Ryan's Hope and Glynn (who seemed talented) failed miserably with Liza's Cord/Kentucky plots in addition to bad casting against the dynamic Sherry Mathis.  Michael Corbett was sensational and should have been kept around indefinitely. Adair and Justine were not well thought out characters after we got invested in Linda Gibboney and Sue Scannell both of whom were talented.  Losing John Anniston was another blow and mistake.  After all the Sentell stories, they should have built on that family and had Liza embroiled in something compelling around that. We didn't need the McClearys, especially Kate 1. However, Glynn and Barrett kept the ratings in the 3's with 12 share off and on and stations weren't defecting. There were ratings dips after Travis died but the show stabilized in the ratings again only to have the producer/writer tossed for Mayer/Braxton and Nicholson. Made no sense. What an odd coupling that was. Tomlin returns with Whitesell as producer and the ratings slide into the high 2s and more stations drop. Their fatal mistake was the Feb 86 flood. It was pointless but the ratings had been dropping to high 2s with 9 or 10 share. However, by May 86 the ratings were back in the low 3s with 11/12 share where they had been for much of Glynn/Barret and some of Tomlin's first run. So what does P&G do, they give maternity leave Pam Long executive story title with Addie Walsh as her head writer and the ratings drop into the mid 2s and 8-9 share with the Malcom/Kat bull sh_t and no experience producer David Lawrence. Thus, the show gets cancelled.  I always wondered how much interference and/or impact Mary Stuart had on the merry go round of writers and producers. Also, when you go further back in the ratings archives and see how well the show was doing on CBS when it was cancelled, it really demonstrates how short sighted the network execs were about audience loyalty. CBS did this to Edge as well.  SFT was a classic soap with such a loyal audience. Finally, with all these 80s episodes being posted these months I've been building out a list of writer/producer start/end dates which I'll post at some point, but it's absolutely insane how P&G treated SFT and continuously destabilized the show.  

Edited April 20 by VelekaCarruthers

[dc11786]

I think Ralph Ellis and Eugenie Hunt were the wrong pair to bring the show to NBC. People will probably disagree, but I would have given the Corringtons (if free) antoher shot at Search for Tomorrow. The Corringtons would probably have struggled with the youth push as well, but I think some of the writing might have been slicker. Ellis and Hunt's episodes from October-early December have some energy, but its a bizarre clash of old school conversations over cups of coffee and the insane jungle adventures of the younger set. The Corringtons could also lean into the over the top so it might not have worked as well I as hope. 

David Cherrill feels like a good fit to transition the show to something that would be airing on NBC. Ellis and Hunt feels like the stereotypical sterile Proctor & Gamble vibe that some shows could maintain with a better degree of interest. Cherrill is more plot heavy with centering Travis and Liza with the murder of Tony, then Liza's pregnancy, Rusty's murder, Liza's trial, etc. I think there was an increasing amount of humor by the time Lee arrives in late March to work with Cherrill. Cherrill and Lee introduce a lot of the early Lee characters (Michael Kennedy/Kendall, Rhonda Sue Huckaby, Steve Kendall) and writes the Mommy Warbucks stuff with Stephanie taking in Andie and Andie running off while her diabetes acts up with the big dog.

I feel like Lee / Tomlin find a nice groove though there is a lot of their run missing from the tape trade circles (from what I've experienced). I think Jo's kidnapping is strong, the triangle with Wendy / Suzi / Warren is phenomenal, Steve and Stephanie's romance, the feud between the Kendalls and the Sentells, and the introduction of Barbara Moreno all really worked for me. There were definitely weak links (Angela Moreno donning a Greek accent to seduce Danny) but overall I foudn it a joy. 

Barrett gets to produce some of Tomlin's strongest  material with the acquaintance rape and the escalation in the growing animosity between Warren and most of the town of Henderson. 

I don't know why Lee was dropped, but I think she tried really hard and had some interesting ideas. I would have loved to see her original role for Sheryl Lee Ralph, which was as one of Lloyd Kendall's wives. She was really trying to build enough interest to get the show extended to an hour, but she just never got there. Between stunt casting (Michelle Phillips as Ruby Ashford, originally intended for Cher) and the Live episode along with some strong dramatic sequences, I think she easily could have kept going. It's a shame it didn't last longer. 

I could give or take Glynn's work until about January, 1985. I really liked the fallout of T.R. learning that Lloyd was her father and Chase being relieved of the guilt he felt over Rebecca's disappearance. The end of the Warren saga led to some great material for Teri Eoff and Lisa Peluso. T.R. and Ryder worked for me. 

I really enjoy a good chunk of Mayer / Braxton, but acknowledge some of their blunders were too big for most to overlook. I really liked Caldwell House and putting Jo and Stu back in a lodging situation. I really liked Wendy / Quinn / Sarah. I thought the dynamics in the McCleary household with Suzi and Kate were great domestic drama. I thought the general idea of Lloyd wanting Liza while Liza was drawn to Hogan in a mostly sexual way was interesting, but obviously the Sunny angle was awful. It's funny, I think Walsh / Long do Liza equally dirty in 1986 during the Hogan / Patti / Liza story, but that often is overlooked. Probably because Louan Gideon's Liza was so universally dismissed. 

The shift from Nicholson to whoever was next (Whitsell?) was hard because Tomlin had just started and there seemed to be such a huge shift in story between October and December. 

I have little use for most of Long and Walsh's run but maybe it would be easier to handle if more of 1986 was available. 

[Paul Raven]

You would think TPTB would recognize that one of SFTs big problems in that era was the constant change in direction and cast changes. As @dc11786 pointed out, there was a reveal about Elan's parentage that was needlessly changed.

If there were new writers there should have been a mandate to tweak what was there rather than cast purges. Too many new characters.

Of course there were characters available who could have been brought on to strengthen the core. Gary and Danny Walton for example. Laine Adamson returning. An earlier (and better) return for Patti with teen kids.

Maybe when the realized Louan wasn't loved, maybe Liza could have been rested for a while.

So many possibilities.

[TEdgeofNight]

I do not believe that Joanna Lee was fired. She left on her own. She was frustrated about the constraints of daytime. The cast loved her. 

[GymnastGuy]

Joanna Lee indeed left on her own accord.  Ellen Barrett was EP when Cheatham and Arrants left the show.

[VelekaCarruthers]

Thanks! And thanks for posting all these episodes. Even in SFT lowest moments it was heads and shoulders above any of the daytime soaps on air right now. I have a bunch of VCR tapes of 80s soaps in my garage. I'll have to dig through them.

[Khan]

It seems like SFT faced the same issue that all ailing soaps have faced.  It wasn't enough for CBS/NBC or P&G that SFT remained consistent or was building toward something better that, in time, could excite the audience.  TPTB didn't have patience for that.  They wanted SFT's ratings up, and they wanted them up yesterday.

[Soaplovers]

Lack of affiliate clearance and ranking 3rd in the markets that it did air at 12:30/11:30 ensured that their days were numbered.  When I was looking at the weekly ratings provided by Jason47, the switching of time slots for Loving/Ryan's Hope actually helped SFT some since there were a few weeks where SFT was close to ranking higher than Loving.

Even in the fall 1983 episodes being uploaded on YT, Wendy is still shown as not being a complete schemer.  She was shown feeling guilty over what she did to Suzi, confused over her feelings for Warren, while she still had a close relationship with Stephanie.   She still resembled the nice ingenue Wendy, who happened to make a mistake and was trying to figure out a way forward.

1985's Wendy is basically whatever the plot calls for without any layers nor nuances that was plain to see back in mid to late 1983 during the Warren/Suzi/Wendy triangle (which loses steam with Cindy Gibbs leaving and her replacement not being up to the task).   And the Stephanie/Wendy fighting over Bela story seemed very out of character given the many years of history where Stephanie/Wendy were a team against the world.  They bickered, but you could tell that the two loved one another.  Had the show not fired/driven Maree of the show.. I don't think the Stephanie/Wendy relationship would have ever devolved into the fighting over the same man trope..imho.

During the Locher Room interviews with both Shaffer and Peluso (separately done).. when both were asked about working with one another.... it didn't sound like they had a horrible working relationship.. but that they both had to figure out how to develop a rapport with one another.  All Peluso would say was that it was very different, but wasn't a bad working relationship.. while Shaffer said Peluso wasn't a bad working partner.. but could tell she was basically checked out and ready to go.

 

Edited April 21 by Soaplovers

[GymnastGuy]

I have fished uploading what I have for 1983....so far

Edited April 24 by GymnastGuy

[VelekaCarruthers]

Thanks! I've been thinking about the P&G soaps from 1983 with all these uploads. My no. 1 soap was Edge but I was a fan of SFT, GL and ATWT over the ABC and non P&G soaps.  They made huge writer/producer changes in March and May 1983 

GL: Pam Long took over GL May 23, 1983 (Kobe replaced Potter as EP in March)

ATWT: Caroline Franz and John Saffron took over from the Dobsons on May 23, 1983 (Franz was demoted to script writer after six months and Saffron lasted another six months as sole head before disappearing from daytime)

SFT: Gary Tomlin took over from David Cherrill on May 27, 1983 (good move but he lasted 11 months and 2 EPs) (Lee replaced Bartholemew as EP March 30th)

EDGE: Lee Sheldon took over from Henry Slesar on May 23, 1983 (got the show cancelled after 18 months)

Another World: Soderberg had joined Purser as co head in Jan 1983 but Paul Rauch resigned in March 1983 and was replaced by Allen Potter who was switched from GL)

[DRW50]

Thanks so much.

[Khan]

Personally, I wonder why P&G hired Joanna Lee as a producer and not as a writer.