Y&R: Episodes discussion, Week of August 31

[lovely_m]

Crazy MaryJane may have been better if it was Mari Jo (the woman who got a hooker to sleep with Jack's son Keemo) instead of Patty.

If Kyle Abbott was on the show do you think Patty would have killed him, being Jack and Diane's son and all?

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I totally agree, and it wouldn't have been a total psychotic rewrite of a character to have Mari Jo Mason do all this wacky s.hit. Plus, she has a history with Jack, Ashley, Victor, Christine (hell, even Paul via Christine), and Jill (but this writing team hates Jill).

It would have also caused less damage to have her doing all this. She may have shot Victor, but I could easily see Victor looking past that to use her lunacy as a weapon against Jack, even though that in itself is far fetched.

I can't buy innocent looking Patty Williams going this batsh!t crazy, no matter how much Jack treated her like crap during their marriage ALMOST 30 YEARS AGO. Hell it STILL hasn't been FULLY explained why and how Patty ended up like this. We know from the clips that Chris B posted that she was content with her life, not outrageously happy, but content, when she divorced Jack and later had a fling with Danny before leaving town.

Then again, you can't expect much from this writing regime, so...

[MoTheGreat]

I thought MAB was into Y&R history. It seems like they scam over this part of the history of Patty.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

MAB and her henchmen only like "history" when they can manipulate the audience or use it to force some agenda.

Hell from what they've shown to us, Patty seems like a very resourceful psycho villain, how did it take Victor's urging for her to come back to town and do all this? If she was really psychotic, like they want us to believe, then why didn't she strike before Victor brought her back?

Hell, WHY did Victor bring her back to town anyway? To get back at Jack is not a good enough excuse. What was his motivation for doing this? He had to know someone as fragile as that was going to unravel at any minute, he's not that stupid. Also, what was in it for him? Not like Patty was hired as some spy to steal secrets from Jabot and hand them over to Newman or whatever, she was hired to incorporate herself into Jack's life again. But again for what? Even if she tortured Jack, it was going to be short term and all the way though, this writing regime has wanted us to believe that Jack was always in love with Sharon and he would always be her doormat, and he only wanted casual sex from Patty. Jack never wanted anything with Patty and Victor had to have known just how foolishly in "love" Jack was/is with Sharon, so Patty was never really going to be a threat in the love life department anyway.

That's why, instead of wrecking Patty Williams, this story would have been better suited for Mari Jo Mason. She could have been a 6 month psycho and go back to the nuthouse after it was all revealed.

[MoTheGreat]

Let's be real the only history MAB cares about is undoing Jill & Katherine. Bringing back Philip 3rd so we know that Cane is a fraud. All the other history can go to hell in a hand basket.

[MarkH]

In their defense, first of all, the groundwork was laid for Patty to go a little crazy. But I accept that she left GC in a healthier place.

But in the ensuing 2.5 decades, who knows what traumas she encountered. It seems reasonable that she experienced something so traumatic that it caused her not to "look very good" and require plastic surgery. That implies either physical trauma (e.g., a car crash that both wrecked her face and caused head injury) or psychological trauma (e.g., an abusive boyfriend who wrecked her face and beat her about the head) or both could have occurred. We have no access yet to the decades of history that shaped her thus.

I also feel it is not a problem that we don't know this yet. Presumably, the first arc of this tale was for us not to know who Patty was. The second arc of the tale, that we're now in, is to see denouement and aftermath of the initial "scam". The third arc, I feel, will be getting to know Patty...and therein we may slowly learn her backstory, as she relives it in the process of healing.

I feel Patty has far more potential than Adam, whose motivations seem quite slender. Moreover, they are known to us, and nothing seems to justify the heinousness of what he has done.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Yes, but if she was so hung up over Jack, why did it take Victor's intervention to get her back to town? They've shown us that she's a resourceful psycho villain like Sheila can be, so why didn't she strike sooner and without Victor bringing her back? All of her reign of terror thus far has been WITHOUT any help from Victor.

She may have very well had other traumas, but they only one they seem to be playing up is her love for Jack, which seemed forgotten before Victor brought her back. How are we supposed to comprehend her point of view if there's no hint as to what happened to her while she was away for nearly three decades?

I'm sorry, nothing justifies killing a a dog and harming a young girl that she KNOWS had a peanut allergy.

What was the justification for hurting Summer anyway? Phyllis was never any threat to Jack, she was just comfort sex, Patty KNEW Jack was hung up on Sharon, yet she went after Summer to get her parents back together. I still do not understand that logic.

The accelerated pacing isn't helping this story either...

[MarkH]

She may well NOT have been particularly hung up on Jack. It is quite plausible that she was intrigued by Jack and by Genoa City...and when Victor promised to bring her back under cover of anonymity (and maybe with a little revenge in mind) it TRIGGERED her pathological behaviors. This is quite plausible, actually.

Nothing justifies many heinous acts. Nothing justified Jeffrey Dahmer's behavior. But it can be explained. Can Patty come back from that?? I don't know. But if anyone can bring her back, it is Haiduk.

Patty is not as clever and resourceful as Sheila. She's a wounded bird (ironically who wounds birds)...and therein lies the actress' skill.

Patty has already explained that she never intended to do that level of harm to Summer. Her act was supposed to cause a mild delay. In this sense, she is like Gloria...reckless...she committed an act (under cloud of insanity) that went further than she intended.

As for the logic of hurting Summer...I will also never fully get that. But it helps to remember...she's insane. Her logic is...fractured.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Yes, but none of that is in the writing. Theere hasn't so far been any hint as to why she ended up like this after being away for nearly three deaces. How are we supposed to understand where she's coming from if we have no idea or even the slightest hint as to what triggered all this? I'm sorry, it makes no sense to reveal that after her reveal and after she's committed so many acts of terror.

The actress can only so so much if the writing isn't there to back hr character up. These writing regime skips over beats and character motivations, which will do more harm to a character like Patty than good.

She is resourceful like Sheila though, hence why she was able to commit so many crimes without initially being detected.

I don't buy that crap. Peanut allergies are very serious, even if she didn't mean to put Summer in a coma, SHE MEANT TO HARM SUMMER in some way, shape, or form.

Using a child's allergy and coming up with an idea to prey upon it is a premeditated act. She had to have thought up the skillful way in which she was going to do harm to Summer. Maybe she didn't mean to cause as much harm, but she meant to cause some harm.

It also helps to know that this writing regime sucks at character writing, writing all the beats in a storyline, and totally doesn't get character motivation.

Again, I still need a hint as to what drove her down this road to fully get where she's coming from. Nothing has been suggested or explained yet, other than she's crazy in love with Jack.

[MichaelGL]

I agree Mari Jo would have been a better character. I don't know why they wouldn't have brought her back.

I just find it hard to believe that, Patty after more than a decade, is still hung up on Jack in such a way. I mean if she was, why didn't she come back sooner? Why did Patty leave on her accord if she was this wrapped up with Jack? From reading recaps, it seemed as if Patty was pushed to her breaking point after the miscarriage (Understandable?) and Jack's affair. I dunno, it just seems like Bell played up the sympathetic part in Patty back in the day when all this played out, and MAB and Co. are playing up all her unsympathetic qualities just to heighten the stakes. I would have found it more believable if Patty had returned as a woman who made a name for herself, and Jack was to slowly fall for her, only in the end to have her wisen up and reject him knowing that she's been down that road before and it wasn't pretty.

[alphanguy74]

Alvin, as we saw today, she is very much playing the wounded bird... like Mark pointed out. What you have to realize is that when SL's like this play out, you'r not gonna get the full explanation for a character's motivation up front, which from your posts... it seems you are demanding that. Soemtimes the motivation is made clear at the outset, other times, it comes in tibits through the story, and sometimes you don't find out till the end... and in some cases (which makes viewers mad) you don't find out at all. In the latter case, you may not like it, but it's supposed to make the viewer PONDER what the motivation was, and grapple in their own mind for an explanation. We have had one tidbit so far... the whole "Kitty, where did you put my pills!" line. I think more will be revealed as time goes on. Bill Bell never revealed all a character's motivations up front, either. For isntance, we never knew why Lucas was such a "momma's boy" until 2 years later, we found out he started the fire that scarred Vanessa. There's example after example like that in Y&R's history. You must play your motivation reveals differently through the years, or else your show become painfully predictable. I honestly think we WILL see some of Patty's motivation revealed by the end of the week.

[DRW50]

The "genius" in the show bringing back long gone characters is that they don't have to actually fill in history. So they can just let viewers say, "Oh, well, it's been all those years, so anything could have happened."

I'm continually amazed at how these people just write as if there is no audience, as if they are staging their own little productions, like Norman Mailer used to do. Eileen Davidson even had to clarify whether or not Ashley still had a dead fetus inside her.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Exactly, if it's not in the writing, then it doesn't exist at all on the show, no matter what rationalizations fans come to.

Bill Bell, Kay Alden, and Jack Smith might not have given everything away at the beginning, but they were good at laying groundwork and giving us clues as to what's really going on, which this writing regime has no idea of how to do.

[DRW50]

I should also say I don't mind a slow-burning story, but I think you can have a slow-burning story and drop clues along the way. I don't see this as a slow-burning story. In a matter of months, MJ became a lunatic who murdered a dog and caused brain damage to a young child. No matter what happens now, viewers may always remember these actions, actions which had no real basis other than "She crazy."

[Greg's GL]

<sigh> I haven't felt a bit compelled to catch any of this week's episodes and the sad part is that none of these posts are changing my mind about tuning in.

In a matter of months, this show has went from must-see TV for me to must-miss TV. How pathetic.

I want Sheffer, Hamner and Rauch all gone from this show. Today. I guess Ed Scott's career is over after the fiasco at DOOL, but I'd love to have him back. He could whip this show into shape in no time.