I can answer some of these. You won't like the answer!

What was the point in killing off Brad and then his as well a Traci Abbot's daughter a few months later?

Cost reduction of a non-essential branch of the family, since Y&R got a 40% license cut.

So core characters can't leave town anymore? They all have to die to push story?

Proximally, it was to get Adam and Paul in the hospital at the same time as... (and I have forgotten who else was in the hospital and why it was an important twist). But, yes, this was lame.

Well, that says it all then...

To serve dual purposes. First, to feed Victor the irony of what he had wrought--to show him what he had unleashed on his own family. This was the place where Dr. Frankenstein finally has to confront his monster. Also, that story turned the worm for Patty...it is when they began setting up the climax of 9/17. Second, it created the obstacle that kept Nick and Sharon apart--driving at least another year of story.

The obstacle only served to prolong this inane quad, because if it didn't happen, Nick would probably be with Sharon. Another lame one.

And Vicor could have paid in other ways and he did when Patty shot him and he needed a heart transplant. Also, with Braeden possibly not coming back, it might have all been done for nothing.

What is the point of this whole Terroni mess?

To introduce Deacon to the canvas. Longer term, to set up something with Ryder's mother. That is apparently one of the next big stories. (I'm not defending that)

So Deacon has to get priority and characters that have been on the back-burner for years have to linger there for an eternity?

What was the point of having Devon sleep with Tyra?

To usher Eva off the canvas. The straw that broke the camel's back. Nothing more.

Tyra could have been written out in a number ways, none of which invovled screwing the boy she spent most of her life believing was her nephew. It caused even more damage to Devon.

Patty as psycho, I suspect, was always planned. It was unfortunate that that ruined a "legacy" character. On the other hand, TPTB obviously grew to love Haiduk. Hence the doppelganger.

Again, another example of pissing on the audience's intelligence.

Well the quad became a triangle, and now it's not even a triangle. Once gets the sense that they're going in a different direction for now. But, to ask this question is to ask why Nikki-Victor-Ashley is a 25-year triangle. It is to ask why triangles are the preferred shape on daytime. This is a repetitive story, but I find nothing unusually egregious here.

Nicki-Victor-Ashely weren't always on the frontburner hogging up airtime. Nikki/Ashley/Victor all had other love interests and stories over the past 25 years. It's the same thing over and over again with Phyllis/Nick/Sharon. This story has been playing out in some form on the frontburner for nearly 5 years now.

To quote Jeanne Cooper, it was "unnecessary". That was literally done for a big cliffhanger. And the rest was a bust. Awful awful awful.

There you go.

Why was the point of giving Katherine a husband if they were hardly ever going to be on together?

I think Murphy was planned to be short-arc. But then he charmed all of us, and TPTB (like Haiduk...notice a pattern?). I honestly didn't expect more. That said, I'd love it if Murphy had a tortured backstory (like an estranged daughter), and Kay helped to reunite them. For now, I'd say the answer is "because he's fun to watch". That works for me.

Fun to watch, but absolutely useless and hardly ever on...

Edited October 14, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

So core characters can't leave town anymore? They all have to die to push story?

Agreed. This is short sighted. I was "explaining" not justifying/agreeing. Clearly someone believes a departure tied to a death is better for ratings (short term) than an orderly departure. Clearly someone believes these shows aren't gonna last, therefore why try to preserve the characters. Isn't this basically the General Hospital strategy?

The obstacle only served to prolong this inane quad, because if it didn't happen, Nick would probably be with Sharon. Another lame one.

And Vicor could have paid in other ways and he did when Patty shot him and he needed a heart transplant. Also, with Braeden possibly not coming back, it might have all been done for nothing.

Here I disagree. I really think Summer changed the quad dynamics. Nick and Sharon moved on (to be "noble"), and committed to their new paths, but they still love one another. That's a long-term seed. But we're quad free, I think.

As for the heart transplant and making Victor pay...sure, this is ridiculous. I actually agree with Braeden when he says this was a planful undermining the character to get him off canvas.

So Deacon has to get priority and characters that have been on the back-burner for years have to linger there for an eternity?

I sincerely like Deacon--even now. That's all due to Kanan. But he is pointless. The story is a trainwreck.

Tyra could have been written out in a number ways, none of which invovled screwing the boy she spent most of her life believing was her nephew. It caused even more damage to Devon.

Total agreement. Huge huge mistake. Too bad this regime doesn't care about the Winters.

Nicki-Victor-Ashely weren't always on the frontburner hogging up airtime. Nikki/Ashley/Victor all had other love interests and stories over the past 25 years. It's the same thing over and over again with Phyllis/Nick/Sharon. This story has been playing out in some form on the frontburner for nearly 5 years now.

Yeah, but I'm fine with a pared down cast and a restricted pool of storytelling. However, in that case, I'd drop all the peripheral characters they don't write for anyway.

Fun to watch, but absolutely useless and hardly ever on...

Since Murphy is just a recurring support character, I can live with that. What other show has introduced an old man? Kudos for Y&R for even doing that in this ageist era.

On the other hand, I keep thinking Murphy's in reserve.

One of my open questions. Why give Kay a SECOND stroke...and then forget about it? Instant rehabilitation, no fallout.

One of my open questions. Why give Kay a SECOND stroke...and then forget about it? Instant rehabilitation, no fallout.

Isn't that the trademark of this writing regime? Everything done for shock value, but never really explored in dept?

Why do both Sharon and Phyllis continue to blame each other and not Nick? Why doesn't that quad never end and why does it always go around in circles?

Well the quad became a triangle, and now it's not even a triangle. Once gets the sense that they're going in a different direction for now. But, to ask this question is to ask why Nikki-Victor-Ashley is a 25-year triangle. It is to ask why triangles are the preferred shape on daytime. This is a repetitive story, but I find nothing unusually egregious here.

Nikki/Victor/Ashley wasn't a 25 year triangle in the sense that this Shick and Phick crap is. Ashley did have a lot of romances and stories outside of Victor. Sharon and Phyllis are not allowed to have any real life outside of Nick. The more recent storylines, where Ashley has lived only for Victor, have made her character increasingly generic. Even Eileen Davidson complained about some of the writing.

Cost reduction of a non-essential branch of the family, since Y&R got a 40% license cut.

The show has way too many pointless characters who have few solid ties to anyone, moreso than Colleen or Brad.

I think Brad was about money, and Colleen was written out because it was an easy choice. They knew a lot of fans would just say, "It's all Tammin's fault!!!"

I was looking at some of the old threads and saw one from Mark about a year ago, where he suggested Thom Bierdz going to B&B as a recast CJ.

I know Thom is not the greatest actor, but I do wonder if taking Phillip, and Jill, to B&B might work, especially if Susan Flannery retire in the next few years.

I was looking at some of the old threads and saw one from Mark about a year ago, where he suggested Thom Bierdz going to B&B as a recast CJ.

I know Thom is not the greatest actor, but I do wonder if taking Phillip, and Jill, to B&B might work, especially if Susan Flannery retire in the next few years.

I'd rather have Jill over there than have her put out to pasture. I'd like to see Thom wherever he may be. And I know TECHNICALLY he's not the greatest actor, but he just has a quality I like. He has an endearing vulnerability.... makes you want to coddle him. NOW..... of course, the biggest mistake Brad Bell ever made was not leaving Sally's backstory a total blank. I still maintain that it would have been best if we found out that Sally Spectra really WAS Rose Deville, and she moved to LA, and was living under an alias to start life anew..... and (drum roll) CJ turns out to be Nina's son that was stolen from her. It would have been the MOTHER of all crossovers, and would have garnered huge ratings. Cast and Conley would have hit that out of the PARK. I'm not sure how Mick Cain would have played it, but he could have been sent over to Y&R. But that's all spilled milk at this point. Boy, do I miss Darlene.

Edited October 14, 200916 yr by alphanguy74

Oh God, no! Rose and Sally were such diametrically different characters, to say that Sally is Rose would completely destroy the character of Sally. Suddenly, all that deliciousness Sally was would have been fake--a total destruction.

And, as far as I'm concerned, I hope Nina never finds her son

Things I know from (educated/experienced guesses) are Hogan:

Sharon's pyschosis and the fall out from that- (I actually liked this)

Kevin's regression/chipmunk- (big fail)

Billy- The chip on Billy's shoulder/cbetrayal aspect

Victor/ Mary Jane introduction- While I'm sure Mary Jane/ Patty was a collaborative effort the

way the story was initially executed was very Hogan

New stories:

Killing pets and death darkness and gloom seems very consistent with Hogan's prior materials elsewhere as well. But I can't blame it on him, he needs to be reigned in. He's an artist I think he's done some good throughout his career but there's the good the bad and the plain ugly. Also though, it's not just Hogan. The writing and character developments are inconsistent because it doesn't seem that the team is very cohesive, it shows in the writing. I think if MAB wants to keep this team she needs to learn the best balance. Identify strengths and weaknesses and find out how o balance each other and execute better balanced material

Edited October 14, 200916 yr by classicmoment

But I can't blame it on him, he needs to be reigned in. He's an artist I think he's done some good throughout his career but there's the good the bad and the plain ugly. Also though, it's not just Hogan. The writing and character developments are inconsistent because it doesn't seem that the team is very cohesive, it shows in the writing. I think if MAB wants to keep this team she needs to learn the best balance. Identify strengths and weaknesses and find out how o balance each other and execute better balanced material

This can't be stressed enough. Sheffer has great ideas, he just needs somebody like Carolyn Culliton (that first year at ATWT) or Ed Scott (the last months he was at DOOL) to rein him in. To ground him. Left on his own, his stories always run amok. As Alvin has stated over and over (and over) again, it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of self-control from the Y&R team. I think one person telling them to hold their horses is probably the missing ingredient to pull it all back down to reality.

I think we've agreed that the Carolyn tale has been exaggerated.

This can't be stressed enough. Sheffer has great ideas, he just needs somebody like Carolyn Culliton (that first year at ATWT) or Ed Scott (the last months he was at DOOL) to rein him in. To ground him. Left on his own, his stories always run amok.

When someone can't reign themselves in, what does that say about them? Does Y&R deserve someone like that and someone who has caused (or was partly responsible) for similar havoc at other shows?

What are these great ideas though? Recycling a rape plot where the sexual assault is downplayed and played for laughs? Killing off a young character tied to a core family of the show? I think Carl has pretty much covered much of Sheffer's trends in this thread and in other threads. Not saying all of them are bad, but it seems like Sheffer hasn't learnt any lesson from past flops at other shows, and he seems to be bringing his worst tendencies to Y&R. I have no respect or tolerance for people who do not learn from their mistakes and who want to believe they're writing Greek tragedy, when they're really writing a cheaply produced Saturday morning cartoon.

As Alvin has stated over and over (and over) again, it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of self-control from the Y&R team. I think one person telling them to hold their horses is probably the missing ingredient to pull it all back down to reality.

And these people deserve all the time in the world to figure this all out? (not saying you're saying that, just stating it) Do you at least see why I and others are calling for a new writing regime at this show?

I think bellcurve was absolutely right when he said this:

But I'm pretty sure a better writing regime, even with these crap stories, would be able to properly plot and script this in a way that doesn't insult the viewer's intelligence.

Reality is nice, but what about the misogynistic writing for women? The treatment of minority characters? The corporate intrigue aspect that used to make the show stand out (Restless Sh!t, Maria's pet project, does not count? Sensible exploration of the core rivalries on the show? Jack/Victor has been one huge disgrace and completely understood dynamic, the less said about what this regime has reduced the Katherine/Jill dynamic to, the better.

Also, when a show has three very different Head Writers, is it any wonder why the show is so choppy and scattered? Unless there's a strong leader that understands everything there is to know about the grain of Y&R (Which MAB does not, I don't even consider her a writer, more like a placeholder that just stayed on after the strike ended), it doesn't work. Does she simply have two Co-HW's to pass the blame around?

As Mark pointed out before, there is a clear breakdown in creative system at Y&R. When the writing doesn't get better and mistakes keep on being repeated, why should fans want to give these people writing this dreck more time? If time has shown anything, is that this regime has gotten worse as time goes by.

Dude, I wasn't challenging anything you're saying. Stop going on the defensive every time I post something. I see all your points. I have for awhile. I'm not arguing anything you're saying, am I? Why all the question marks?

Completely predictable.

Alvin is and always will be very passionate about the show.

It's sad that at the end of the day out thoughts mean nothing for this show.

Dude, I wasn't challenging anything you're saying. Stop going on the defensive every time I post something.

I don't mean to come off like I'm attacking you or anyone else, I was just replying to your post, as I've replied to almost everyone else in this thread.

Mark and I have had similar scenarios where it seemed like we were attacking one another's posts, when we weren't in the past.

Of course, Sylph is the King of being misunderstood.

I see all your points. I have for awhile. I'm not arguing anything you're saying, am I? Why all the question marks?

My post went off into discussion about the show itself, so while it was a response to something you said, it was also a rant and something fitting for this thread. Sorry if it felt like an attack.