Dear soap-obsessed buddies, it's not the PLOT, it's NEVER the PLOT, it's ALL. ABOUT. THE. EXECUTION.

Shakespeare's Hamlet is not the only Hamlet, his Lear is not the only Lear, and his star-crossed lovers plot for R&J sure as hell aint the only star-crossed lovers plot. What separates wheat from chaff is execution and NOTHING else.

In theory, P3 running away because he's gay is not an inherently bad plot idea. If done right, it could have been deeply affecting. For it to be done right though P3, a smart guy, needs to really believe that Jill & Nina & Kay would be so crushed that he would rather "die" than hurt them in that way. That means Nina, who is not homophobic but perhaps ignorant about what makes someone gay, would be crushed because she would see this as a rejection of her femininity and as a sign of her "failure" as a woman. Nina, therefore, should be in so much pain from P3's action that it would take her months and months before she's even able to be in the same room with him before without bursting into tears. The next one is tricky -- because JW would hate to be seen as homophobic -- but it is also essential that Jill "blame" herself of P3 being gay. TPTB could have very easily written her like Erica Kane, accepting of homosexuality in others but having a very hard time accepting it in her own son. She should react with self-blame and this self-blame would of course torture P3 but also help us understand why he felt so desperate. Kay, of course, should be referencing her own lesbian fling. Now Kay, after this fling, choose to live a completely hetero life, even though some of her deepest emotional bonds were with other women. I am not saying Kay is hot for Nikki or Amber, rather that she may sublimated some of her sapphic feelings and channeled them into those friendships. Since Kay "choose" to be 100% straight, and since P3 did have relationships with Nina and Cricket, and therefore seems to have some straight in him, Kay's reaction should be very complicated. She should sympathize with P3's same-sex desires and yet still think that P3 could have "chosen" a straight life. This, of course, would also stress P3 out, and also help provide a better context for P3's TWO big decisions -- which are faking his death AND staying away for so long.

Did that happen? No. Because HEAVEN FORBID that Kay, Jill, or Nina display any real human flaws and have any traces of homophobia or ignorance about homosexuality. By making them so "cool" with it, it just makes P3 look a selfish pig. And if he's a selfish pig, WHY do we care that Jill & Kay were fighting over him and grieving for him for all these years? This story PAINS ME.

Second runner up in poor execution is the whole Adam has sex with a man story. The idea of Victor's son having gay sex is not a bad idea. The execution though! Yikes. If Adam were going to sleep with a man, why Rafe? Adam can con Victor, he can't con Rafe without sex? Please. That's just stupid. If TPTB wanted a story where Adam has sex with a man, HELLO, he was just in prison! That's when & where Adam should meet his first boyfriend. It would have been credible, and more than that, it would have honest and true to life. If Adam ended up sleeping with a man for his own protection -- and if he ended up liking it in spite of himself, he would hate himself, Victor and Jack beyond all reason. THAT would have been the perfect motivation/explanation for him being such a psycho that he's torturing poor Ashley. On top of that, if Adam is all about sticking it to Victor & Jack, why is he just targeting Ashley? Why isn't he ratting out Noah when he sneaks off to see Eden? Why isn't Adam putting the moves on Colleen to screw with her emotions? And shouldn't Billy naturally be visiting Ashley? That's a perfect opportunity for Adam to play mind games with Billy. And if Adam were struggling with his own sexuality at that point, it would have been quite interesting for him to crush on Billy. Also, why didn't he frame VICTORIA for his crimes? We have a cast that's never used. I like Estella but why did TPTB give a story to a recurring character when Victoria is totally unused?

Edited July 17, 200916 yr by cara mia

Mark, I must say, I rather enjoy your recent critical analysis of what's wrong with this show.

and great points cara mia!

Edited July 17, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

I enjoy Muhney very much in his role. He gives it his all. But seeing him today Morrow...you can see Muhney has left the planet and is playing a comic book villain at this point. Or, rather, he is being written as one. That's sad. Because this is Victor Newman Jr! That character shoulda had legs!

MM is a good actor. He would make an incredible back from the dead AJ on GH or a fantastic Todd on OLTL. He is not Victor Newman, Jr. though. I would blame the writing because most actors, even very talented ones, could not make Adam into a real human boy. CE could though. Losing him was a deathblow to the character and a big loss for the show. In just a few weeks, Victor Newman Jr. is now less credible and more cartoony than David Kimble!!! The best thing to do is just send Adam off to jail for a year or two and then do a reboot with the character. They could even bring MM back. No doubt he could play human if Adam were written human. At this point though Adam, like Cricket-stalker Michael Baldwin before him, is now too extreme and is putting the entire show out of balance.

They wouldn't even need to have Jill homophobic now. They could just say Jill and Katherine were homophobic in the past.

At this point I don't even think having them say, "He's gay, why, it's all my fault" would make the story work because they have made it difficult to have any emotional connection to Phillip. Or to anyone in this story. They just seem to throw these ideas out there and assume having the ideas is good enough.

I don't even like to think about what they've done with Adam, who should have been one of the next generation of this show. The current writing suggests they don't believe the show will even have a next generation -- and if they keep this up, it won't.

They need a major clearing, cast and crew, if they're going to salvage Y&R. Just writing out Gloria or Colleen won't be enough.

Dear soap-obsessed buddies, it's not the PLOT, it's NEVER the PLOT, it's ALL. ABOUT. THE. EXECUTION.

Shakespeare's Hamlet is not the only Hamlet, his Lear is not the only Lear, and his star-crossed lovers plot for R&J sure as hell aint the only star-crossed lovers plot. What separates wheat from chaff is execution and NOTHING else.

In theory, P3 running away because he's gay is not an inherently bad plot idea. If done right, it could have been deeply affecting. For it to be done right though P3, a smart guy, needs to really believe that Jill & Nina & Kay would be so crushed that he would rather "die" than hurt them in that way. That means Nina, who is not homophobic but perhaps ignorant about what makes someone gay, would be crushed because she would see this as a rejection of her femininity and as a sign of her "failure" as a woman. Nina, therefore, should be in so much pain from P3's action that it would take her months and months before she's even able to be in the same room with him before without bursting into tears. The next one is tricky -- because JW would hate to be seen as homophobic -- but it is also essential that Jill "blame" herself of P3 being gay. TPTB could have very easily written her like Erica Kane, accepting of homosexuality in others but having a very hard time accepting it in her own son. She should react with self-blame and this self-blame would of course torture P3 but also help us understand why he felt so desperate. Kay, of course, should be referencing her own lesbian fling. Now Kay, after this fling, choose to live a completely hetero life, even though some of her deepest emotional bonds were with other women. I am not saying Kay is hot for Nikki or Amber, rather that she may sublimated some of her sapphic feelings and channeled them into those friendships. Since Kay "choose" to be 100% straight, and since P3 did have relationships with Nina and Cricket, and therefore seems to have some straight in him, Kay's reaction should be very complicated. She should sympathize with P3's same-sex desires and yet still think that P3 could have "chosen" a straight life. This, of course, would also stress P3 out, and also help provide a better context for P3's TWO big decisions -- which are faking his death AND staying away for so long.

Did that happen? No. Because HEAVEN FORBID that Kay, Jill, or Nina display any real human flaws and have any traces of homophobia or ignorance about homosexuality. By making them so "cool" with it, it just makes P3 look a selfish pig. And if he's a selfish pig, WHY do we care that Jill & Kay were fighting over him and grieving for him for all these years? This story PAINS ME.

Second runner up in poor execution is the whole Adam has sex with a man story. The idea of Victor's son having gay sex is not a bad idea. The execution though! Yikes. If Adam were going to sleep with a man, why Rafe? Adam can con Victor, he can't con Rafe without sex? Please. That's just stupid. If TPTB wanted a story where Adam has sex with a man, HELLO, he was just in prison! That's when & where Adam should meet his first boyfriend. It would have been credible, and more than that, it would have honest and true to life. If Adam ended up sleeping with a man for his own protection -- and if he ended up liking it in spite of himself, he would hate himself, Victor and Jack beyond all reason. THAT would have been the perfect motivation/explanation for him being such a psycho that he's torturing poor Ashley. On top of that, if Adam is all about sticking it to Victor & Jack, why is he just targeting Ashley? Why isn't he ratting out Noah when he sneaks off to see Eden? Why isn't Adam putting the moves on Colleen to screw with her emotions? And shouldn't Billy naturally be visiting Ashley? That's a perfect opportunity for Adam to play mind games with Billy. And if Adam were struggling with his own sexuality at that point, it would have been quite interesting for him to crush on Billy. Also, why didn't he frame VICTORIA for his crimes? We have a cast that's never used. I like Estella but why did TPTB give a story to a recurring character when Victoria is totally unused?

This post turned me on.

I enjoy Muhney very much in his role. He gives it his all. But seeing him today Morrow...you can see Muhney has left the planet and is playing a comic book villain at this point. Or, rather, he is being written as one. That's sad. Because this is Victor Newman Jr! That character shoulda had legs!

No, he's being written as a bad soap opera villain. You shouldn't use 'comic book' as a pejorative...there's a lot of comics that are written better than a lot of soap operas. And vice versa.

But saying Adam is a comic book villain is no better than a film critic saying a bad movie has a soap opera plot assuming everyone will take that as a negative.

When I see this. I see Katherine still as Jill mother for some odd reason

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vXKhuqqdqM

No, he's being written as a bad soap opera villain. You shouldn't use 'comic book' as a pejorative...there's a lot of comics that are written better than a lot of soap operas. And vice versa.

But saying Adam is a comic book villain is no better than a film critic saying a bad movie has a soap opera plot assuming everyone will take that as a negative.

Okay, point taken.

Anyway, I think I meant more "Adam-West-Batman-type villain".

Is it about time for me to make a stupid "denial ain't just a river in Egypt?" joke? Because, seriously? It sounds very appropriate.

Dear soap-obsessed buddies, it's not the PLOT, it's NEVER the PLOT, it's ALL. ABOUT. THE. EXECUTION.

Shakespeare's Hamlet is not the only Hamlet, his Lear is not the only Lear, and his star-crossed lovers plot for R&J sure as hell aint the only star-crossed lovers plot. What separates wheat from chaff is execution and NOTHING else.

In theory, P3 running away because he's gay is not an inherently bad plot idea. If done right, it could have been deeply affecting. For it to be done right though P3, a smart guy, needs to really believe that Jill & Nina & Kay would be so crushed that he would rather "die" than hurt them in that way. That means Nina, who is not homophobic but perhaps ignorant about what makes someone gay, would be crushed because she would see this as a rejection of her femininity and as a sign of her "failure" as a woman. Nina, therefore, should be in so much pain from P3's action that it would take her months and months before she's even able to be in the same room with him before without bursting into tears. The next one is tricky -- because JW would hate to be seen as homophobic -- but it is also essential that Jill "blame" herself of P3 being gay. TPTB could have very easily written her like Erica Kane, accepting of homosexuality in others but having a very hard time accepting it in her own son. She should react with self-blame and this self-blame would of course torture P3 but also help us understand why he felt so desperate. Kay, of course, should be referencing her own lesbian fling. Now Kay, after this fling, choose to live a completely hetero life, even though some of her deepest emotional bonds were with other women. I am not saying Kay is hot for Nikki or Amber, rather that she may sublimated some of her sapphic feelings and channeled them into those friendships. Since Kay "choose" to be 100% straight, and since P3 did have relationships with Nina and Cricket, and therefore seems to have some straight in him, Kay's reaction should be very complicated. She should sympathize with P3's same-sex desires and yet still think that P3 could have "chosen" a straight life. This, of course, would also stress P3 out, and also help provide a better context for P3's TWO big decisions -- which are faking his death AND staying away for so long.

Did that happen? No. Because HEAVEN FORBID that Kay, Jill, or Nina display any real human flaws and have any traces of homophobia or ignorance about homosexuality. By making them so "cool" with it, it just makes P3 look a selfish pig. And if he's a selfish pig, WHY do we care that Jill & Kay were fighting over him and grieving for him for all these years? This story PAINS ME.

Second runner up in poor execution is the whole Adam has sex with a man story. The idea of Victor's son having gay sex is not a bad idea. The execution though! Yikes. If Adam were going to sleep with a man, why Rafe? Adam can con Victor, he can't con Rafe without sex? Please. That's just stupid. If TPTB wanted a story where Adam has sex with a man, HELLO, he was just in prison! That's when & where Adam should meet his first boyfriend. It would have been credible, and more than that, it would have honest and true to life. If Adam ended up sleeping with a man for his own protection -- and if he ended up liking it in spite of himself, he would hate himself, Victor and Jack beyond all reason. THAT would have been the perfect motivation/explanation for him being such a psycho that he's torturing poor Ashley. On top of that, if Adam is all about sticking it to Victor & Jack, why is he just targeting Ashley? Why isn't he ratting out Noah when he sneaks off to see Eden? Why isn't Adam putting the moves on Colleen to screw with her emotions? And shouldn't Billy naturally be visiting Ashley? That's a perfect opportunity for Adam to play mind games with Billy. And if Adam were struggling with his own sexuality at that point, it would have been quite interesting for him to crush on Billy. Also, why didn't he frame VICTORIA for his crimes? We have a cast that's never used. I like Estella but why did TPTB give a story to a recurring character when Victoria is totally unused?

This must be one of my favorite posts on a forum ever.

When I see this. I see Katherine still as Jill mother for some odd reason

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=3vXKhuqqdqM

Probably because the writers have no intention of bringing back the famous feud--it seems that they undid the Kay/Jill thing solely because they wanted Mac with Billy again.

BTW, why oh why did I watch those scenes? lol There should be a warning, like on cigarette packs: WATCHING THIS MAY CAUSE BRAIN MALFUNCTION. My God, what a crappy crappy crappy set of scenes. Phillip--excuse me, Chance--sees that his father is alive, after spending his whole life thinking he was dead, and all we get is 5 seconds of a baffled look and then a handshake, and all is well? "Ah, I was in Iraq, so my dad coming back after 20 years is perfectly fine, sure, because I have been taught to be stern and calm." What utter bullshit. Poor Driscoll played what was written perfectly, but by God what was written was just horrible. I knew I was right for just not watching anymore.

Edited July 17, 200916 yr by YRBB

Btw, word to those who talk about the destruction of Phillip--why does he have to be such an utter, irrevocable ass? Nothing makes sense in this story, just nothing!

cara mia for the win! +1

You know, Cara Mia... why aren't you writing for a soap?

Edited July 17, 200916 yr by alphanguy74

You know, Cara Mia... why aren't you writing for a soap?

Not a lot of those gigs to be had....

You know, Cara Mia... why aren't you writing for a soap?

Not a lot of those gigs to be had....

I am completely against cara mia as HW. Sorry, cm, but when you suggested Dan Brown... You've lost me completely.

God, those Phillip IV meeting Phillip III scenes were terribly botched, rushed, and executed today. A perfect example of the horrible pacing, sloppy execution, and just hallow writing of this crappy writing regime.

They threw too much at us at once, as usual. Phillip IV's first day back should have been spent strictly getting reacquainted with Nina, Jill, and Katherine. He shouldn't have met the father who abandoned him and faked his death for 20 years THIS soon. The Friday cliffhanger should have been Phillip IV opening the front door to find Phillip III there or something. God, the rushing of beats on this show is terrible. As Carl said, it's so anti-soap.

But then again, this crappy writing regimes hates following up on cliffhangers from prior episodes.