What a bunch of nonsense. 45 paragraphs to avoid explaining why he left.

Intolerance is a natural reaction that, I believe, we must understand in order to defeat. It is not a fire to be stomped out by an angry foot or extinguished by a inundating stream of media exposure.

So, he never got around to it....does he have intolerance inside him he wants to understand or not? And not just a little self serving to say it should not be extinguished while the media looks on.

And you have to love the that old refrain "some of my best friends are..."

What a bunch of nonsense. 45 paragraphs to avoid explaining why he left.

So, he never got around to it....does he have intolerance inside him he wants to understand or not? And not just a little self serving to say it should not be extinguished while the media looks on.

And you have to love the that old refrain "some of my best friends are..."

Yeah, that got a good old from me.

I still want Engen for OLTL. Come on Frons, if you're reading this, spin your web of evil and find a way to get CE out of whatever contractual binds he might have with Y&R and cast him as Viki's youngest son! I don't care if it means greasing Y&R's palms to the point of bumping it up 6pm slot on SOAPnet.

Edited May 27, 200916 yr by ACEM

And you have to love the that old refrain "some of my best friends are..."

.... homosexuals

Not "gay", but "homosexuals".

That is a very interesting word choice, since it is now almost exclusively reserved for use in clinical settings and by religious organizations.

While I see no need to paint Engen with the homophobia brush...I think it all sort of worked out for everyone...that one word is very interesting. It is used as a "distancing" word.

I don't want Chris Engen playing Joey Buchanan, who has at times been one of the most sensitive and soulful characters around. What's more, Joey was one of the first kids on daytime to embrace a gay friend.

Mark's right, of course, about the clinical distancing but you couldn't quite let yourself call it homophobic, could you, Mark? Oh well.

Edited May 27, 200916 yr by Vee

I don't want Chris Engen playing Joey Buchanan, who has at times been one of the most sensitive and soulful characters around. What's more, Joey was one of the first kids on daytime to embrace a gay friend.

Mark's right, of course, about the clinical distancing but you couldn't quite let yourself call it homophobic, could you, Mark? Oh well.

No, but I'm beginning to realize this is in part my issue, too.

I have a very hard time with condemnation. My threshold for evidence is very high.

This serves me well in real life, where I often get labels like "mediator" and "impartial" and "fair reviewer".

Here at SON, it often gets me labels like "fanboi", "rationlizer", "defender".

It explains why, Y&R-specific, I can still love the Fisher-Baldwins and so forth. Because I can spin a viable backstory that helps explain/justify/excuse the actions of today, and redeems what I am seeing on screen.

I'll stand by my earlier statement . We all win with this turn of events: Engen (for his principles and conscience), the show (for the difficulty of getting the actor to commit to what is written), and the audience (for having an Adam who is enthusiastic about the material).

I have little doubt that, "fantasy casting" on OLTL notwithstanding, Engen will experience a daytime hiatus.

Just please don't call it his principles and conscience. I mean, did he turn state's evidence against AIG scammers, or did he refuse to kiss a man onscreen?

Just please don't call it his principles and conscience. I mean, did he turn state's evidence against AIG scammers, or did he refuse to kiss a man onscreen?

Ok. I only meant that IN ENGEN'S MIND he stood up for his principles and conscience. There's my little problem with perspective taking again .

Seacrest -- err, MarkH -- out!

(Let me say, I really do appreciate your consistent through line in this thread. It has really given us all a lot to think about.)

I have carefully read his statement, and I really, really, really WANT to empathize with him, but I just can't.

The whole idea that he'd have such a troublesome time playing this role just really rubs me the wrong way. Isn't the whole appeal of being an actor the idea of getting into another skin and exploring situations and thoughts that are outside your personal norm?

Adam's done some pretty horrible things. I would sincerely hate to think that it was kissing another dude that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Like it or not, that says quite a bit about Engen if it's in fact true.

As for his "I'm not a homophobe" statement, I don't know... something about it just rings insincere to me. Like others have pointed out, we've got the now laughable "some of my best friends" line, the use of the clinical and distancing "homosexuals" as opposed to "gay" and the rather longwinded way of saying "hate the sin, not the sinner" which is usually a convenient cover for homophobic behavior.

Really, it all comes down to this. He made a choice, for whatever reasons, and he's the one that's going to have to live with the consequences. I'd rather he not be made a martyr, but that's going to happen regardless. I can't shake my feelings of sadness for him, not because I agree with him, but because it's always sad to me when people allow themselves to be bogged down in dogma that defies logic. It really does make them miserable most of the time.

Huh? It's not like there going to become a real item. Actors barely know each other and still kiss and/or engage in sex scenes....

You see, if he actually came out and specifically stated that he was not strong for the material without all the babble and political correctness, then I could get behind that.

i was just saying that, with anyone uncomfortable kissing someone of the same sex, if you don't really know the person than it makes it that much harder. Contrast that with Eden Riegel and EH, they had the benefit of being best friends and a good idea idea that they would have to partake in gay scenes eventually. But im not saying at all that you need to be bfs with the person to be a good actor and kiss the person.

Regardless, as much as we like to say that he quit specifically because of the kiss, this guy sounds like he's been very unhappy about the character for months and if you take into account what happens next with adam besides the kiss, this character is going VERY dark.

I'm not going to continue to analyze every word he says where he says this, then it must mean that when it could mean entirely something else. i think its counterproductive. Yes, his statement is vague but I reasoned it as he is only allowed to say so much so soon after the debacle. What i would really like to see is someone try and get an interview with this guy when things have settled, when he's allowed to say whatever he wants. Then we will get a better grasp of his personal sentiments and why he quit. Right now, I dont have enough facts to say that speculation is true.

Edited May 27, 200916 yr by TheDSA

Really. He had to kiss Yani. How horrible could that be?!?!?!

This is a civil rights issue, whether some of you like it or not, that is what it is.

You might want to google what Coretta Scott King had to say.

CE not wanting to kiss another man is a civil rights issue?

This is a civil rights issue, whether some of you like it or not, that is what it is.

You might want to google what Coretta Scott King had to say.

?

This is a civil rights issue, whether some of you like it or not, that is what it is.

You might want to google what Coretta Scott King had to say.

Do you mean this?

LGBT equality

King with President George W. Bush.

On April 1, 1998 at the Palmer House Hilton in Chicago, King called on the civil rights community to join in the struggle against homophobia and anti-gay bias. "Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood", King stated. "This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group."

In a speech in November 2003 at the opening session of the 13th annual Creating Change Conference, organized by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, King made her now famous appeal linking the Civil Rights Movement to the LGBT agenda: "I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people. ... But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.' I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.’s dream, to make room at the table of brotherhood and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people."

King's support of LGBT rights was strongly criticized by some black pastors. She called her critics "misinformed" and said that Martin Luther King's message to the world was one of equality and inclusion.

In 2003, she invited the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force to take part in observances of the 40th anniversary of the March on Washington and Martin Luther King's I Have a Dream speech. It was the first time that an LGBT rights group had been invited to a major event of the African American community.

On March 23, 2004, she told an audience at Richard Stockton College in Pomona, New Jersey, that same-sex marriage is a civil rights issue. King denounced a proposed amendment advanced by President George W. Bush to the United States Constitution that would ban equal marriage rights for same-sex couples. In her speech King also criticized a group of black pastors in her home state of Georgia for backing a bill to amend that state's constitution to block gay and lesbian couples from marrying. King is quoted as saying "Gay and lesbian people have families, and their families should have legal protection, whether by marriage or civil union. A constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriages is a form of gay bashing and it would do nothing at all to protect traditional marriage."