Victor is always a prick. Even when he isn't, he is.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I have a tiny little problem with this whole positivity people vs. negativity people. First, that kind of distinction doesn't exist. I just play into that role of the Wicked Witch. You want me to be a hater? OK, I'll be the hater. It's much easier than to try to convince people otherwise.

Number two... If someone's so much enjoying it, I find it really, really hard — unbelievable, actually — that someone else who doesn't like it might spoil it for you. It just doesn't go that way: if you have an opinion and like it, there's almost no way someone can ruin it for you. Especially if you're a normal person who knows that tastes differ. In that sense, sometimes I'm not convinced people actually like it; they try desperately to, but they just fail. And yes, I see no sense in someone forcing oneself to like something. “I'm going to enjoy the ride no matter what”, blah, blah, and all that. There's no way you're gonna enjoy the ride no matter what.

Also, that whole argument "It's better than anything else on daytime" sucks, too. It might be better, but it doesn't mean it's good.

First of all, the dichotomy of "types of people" is (as you have said) unproductive. There are no fools here...nobody who "loves it all" or "hates it all". We're on a continuum, though.

If "more negative" opinions ruined my enjoyment, I wouldn't be here or Usenet or anywhere. That said, in life AND here, there are "Eeyores" or "Debbie Downers"...persons with such persistent negativity that they DO color the world with their grey. Not only is that "grey" a drag in and of itself, but it can be infectious. Let NO ONE tell you that moods and affect aren't contagious. OF COURSE they are. Humans are social creatures.

This isn't about social conformity or "fitting in". This is the simple, unavoidable fact that when you are empathic to another's mood or opinion OF COURSE it can color yours.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... These fights are coma-inducing.

This? From you? LOL

Really? I find them entertaining. If I wasn't so against popcorn a bowl would have been made by now.

What is the matter with popcorn? Are you anti-carb?

That's perfect...for "Mystery Science Theater 3000". But I shouldn't expect to be grossed-out by something I'm expected to take at least semi-seriously.

You know, I'm beginning to think this "Forces of Darkness" is less snarky, and more pejorative. And if it's the latter? Then, I am definitely not amused.

To answer the question, though? Try "a soap opera that doesn't suck".

I didn't coin "forces of darkness" OR "wonder twins", but I'm happy to drop both if you now decree they are no longer funny. I don't really care about labels.

"Doesn't suck". Alas, that is subjective. I watch a soap that doesn't suck. You?

Oh please Sylph, your ass was served to you by Vee, and then it became tiring to be so patronizing (I kid!). LoL, okay I swear I'm done! [MarkH] [/MarkH]

I love the Vee comment. But now my smilies are getting mocked? Damn.....

There is. Hopefully the need is waning. But don't forget that there's the other side of the coin: people trying to convince you how great it is and how it'll make sense. Both are equally frustrating.

Who is "convincing" that Y&R (or whatever is great)? I don't see this sophistry...or any point to it. People are EXPRESSING OPINIONS about things they like or do not like, with others who watch the same show. Where is "convincing" happening? Can an opinion not be expressed...can a debate not occur...without "convincing"?

I find this VERY interesting in you, actually, Sylph. On one hand, you deny the contagion of negative opinion and affect. ON THE OTHER HAND, you equate the expression of positive opinion and affect as "convincing" (and you reject it). That tells me two things. First, your denial of contagion is not something you actually believe. Second, you seem to have a closed mind--and therefore you equate "convincing" with a bad thing.

That said, I regret to say I still find that word "convincing" to be balderdash. I see NOBODY "convincing" here. I actually find that word nonsense, to be frank.

.....you into high-and-mighty mode again and say something so incredibly stupid. Who in the world fakes liking (or hating) a show? That's makes zero sense.

LMAO. "My name is MarkH, and I'm fake-liking Y&R".

Don't you mean the symphony?

Yep. (Well, if I had said, "No", would you have believed me? Be honest.)

Community. Family. Romance. Topical issues. Suspense. All different generations representated, and mingling. Good (if not great) actors. Writing with class and subtext. These are all things I used to expect from a soap opera on a regular basis, and these are all things I want back on a soap opera again.

So, I could get all serious with you, as you have done with me and others, saying "I do not appreciate the mockery". But what the heck. I liked the pacing of that week. My opinion hasn't changed. The week seemed symphonic to me. I'm not embarrassed about that.

Your post above again points out subjectivity. EXCEPT for "topical issues" (which usually make me vomit on soaps, esp. Y&R...Christine Blair's WHOLE RUN was "topical issues"), Y&R gives me all of those things in your list above.

"Tomato/Tom-ah-to". We see the same thing, but we perceive it differently. That's cool.

Ooops. I disagree with you. Am I trying to CONVINCE you? Quick...hide your face!

BAM! That's what I'm taking about. It's about fitting in and acceptance. You'll much more likely be accepted in a new community by being positive and faking a little bit you like something than the other way around. Simple. Nothing wrong with it until it reaches a certain point.

Oh, geez, Sylph. I'm almost 44 freakin' years old. "Fake-like" so I'll be "accepted". COME ON??????

This might be true of the 12 year olds who post here, but COME ON!!!!! Really? Read that above, and see if you REALLY stand by that statement.

C. Personally I find the show boring and overpraised. I've watched too long to just give it up though and some of the stories are entertaining enough to keep me watching.

This is actually pretty close to my opinion.

I do NOT find it boring, and I do NOT pay attention to the praise. I find the show QUITE entertaining (I am still replaying the Jill-Kay-governor scenes...total laugh riot), and I have a 36-year investment in this people and places. So it would have to get pretty bad for me to shuck it.

It helps that, IMO (NOT convincing, NOT trying to be persuasive, NOT doing anything except expressing an opinion) the show is creatively stronger now than it has been since 1998...and even stronger than it was in much of 2005.

Subjectivity, folks. I love your diversity of opinions. Mine is the right one, though. . That smiley was for you, MTSRocks.

Forces of light? Forces of darkness?

What the hell is this, PASSIONS? LoL.

Just for the record - it was a joke. I said the forces of light against the forces of snark. But love where you guys are taking it.

LMAO. "My name is MarkH, and I'm fake-liking Y&R".

Oh, geez, Sylph. I'm almost 44 freakin' years old. "Fake-like" so I'll be "accepted". COME ON??????

Who's talking about you? I didn't mention you nor imply it's you anywhere. Good grief...

But there you go again... First, you quote MTSRocks post from another thread which was closed just to fuel fights and controversy. Not going to work. Typical Mark who typically writes veiled insults. And ends them with , which are rightly mocked (the smileys). It is offensive and you should apologize. People are not morons, Mark, they can see through certain things.

BTW, you're late (as always). We ended this discussion on the previous page.

And now we're getting back on topic. Y&R. I want to hear more of your rationalisations and emanations of the passenger mentality.

Edited May 13, 200916 yr by Sylph

Victoria was a bitch.

Jeff, Gloria and Jill lost their money thanks to Victor.

More Ashley gaslighting by Adam.

Victor wasn't a prick today.

Victor always wins. One of the reasons I can't care about his stories with anyone. I did laugh when he ordered Ashley to make him tea. And why not, what other purpose does she have. She is a chemist, after all, maybe she went to some hidden lab and made him a special brew. That could be her next storyline. Then Adam tries to sabotage her, the test tubes blow up, and he's permanently blinded as well as scarred. He is just about to kill himself when he gets a card from a Victor Von Doom, Victor Newman's long-lost, evil twin brother, now planning to impersonate Victor if Adam will help him kill that pesky Reed Richards...

Don't forget these:

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... These fights are coma-inducing.

They are repetitive and the nastiness is tiring.

There was a time when they were "fun" (to me never, but hey...), when people were just enjoying it and everyone was either an entertained spectator or a participant, but then they just spread like a deadly, unrelenting disease, leaving a terrible void behind them. People left, the discussions quality dropped... And the rest you know. Here we are today.

Okay, let's do a poll and I'll keep track of the results.

C) Who here is genuine about their opinions on the show?

I wanna see if Sylph's theory is right. If he is, I'll back off.

I'm letter C.

Am I the only one that loves the small moments of Nikki and Victor? Today gave me goosebumps when she told him she was marrying Paul. They still got it. They still got it....and if MTS goes....

Am I the only one that loves the small moments of Nikki and Victor? Today gave me goosebumps when she told him she was marrying Paul. They still got it. They still got it....and if MTS goes....

I see what you're saying but I do not want them together for a long, LONG time.

Am I the only one that loves the small moments of Nikki and Victor?

After the way he's treated her over the past year I can hardly even watch their scenes now.

Wannabebitchtoria

Good one!

Community. Family. Romance. Topical issues. Suspense. All different generations representated, and mingling. Good (if not great) actors. Writing with class and subtext. These are all things I used to expect from a soap opera on a regular basis, and these are all things I want back on a soap opera again.

Not having the above is what has happened to soap operas, excellent points!

I don't know about faking it, but I have been trying desperately to like the show and to enjoy every single part of it for months now.... To just watch and be entertained. Not that I have been very successful. I have enjoyed many individual episodes, but the overall feeling is one of constant disappointment....

This is exactly how I feel, I'm trying desperately to hang in there and some episodes are more entertaining than others but it shouldn't be so hard to enjoy the show. It's a shame when a message board dedicated to the genre is more fascinating than the show itself.

Who's talking about you? I didn't mention you nor imply it's you anywhere. Good grief...

But there you go again... First, you quote MTSRocks post from another thread which was closed just to fuel fights and controversy. Not going to work. Typical Mark who typically writes veiled insults. And ends them with , which are rightly mocked (the smileys). It is offensive and you should apologize. People are not morons, Mark, they can see through certain things.

BTW, you're late (as always). We ended this discussion on the previous page.

And now we're getting back on topic. Y&R. I want to hear more of your rationalisations and emanations of the passenger mentality.

Umm - Sylph, Mark is a lot of things but he isn't insulting. I'm not trying to start anything with you, but please don't eviscerate him on the board like this. He's just debating and there's nothing wrong with debating, but your post just seemed a little below the belt. Please? I won't even use a smiley.

Umm - Sylph, Mark is a lot of things but he isn't insulting. I'm not trying to start anything with you, but please don't eviscerate him on the board like this. He's just debating and there's nothing wrong with debating, but your post just seemed a little below the belt. Please? I won't even use a smiley.

He is to me. This is not the first time he does something like that and end it with a smiley. True, he always apologized later. But then did it again after 5 days.

Let's just end this here. It annoys the hell out of people. Me included.

Oh and Mark I don't like popcorn cause it makes me feel gross. If I was anti-carb my family would disown me.

I've gotten into many board wars over the years in my experience they really don't serve anyone in the long run..... everyone has an opinion..... and if someone does truly stand by their opinion.....nothing anyone says should change that.... I've learned that, I've accepted that. I think when someone gets really upset at another person basically coutering their opinion and negating it, they know their opinion and viewpoint has holes. I can definitely see Sylph's point in the matter.

I've gotten into plenty myself over the years, but mostly it's defending the show or the writers against fans castigating them for things that Bill Bell himself even did. Or in some cases (not here, though... the posters here are too intelligent) having to correct fans for blaming the writers for things that are the responsibility of the prodcuer or the director. I even defended LML at first, because she WAS good for a few months while Alden was still there to temper her... and I believe in giving EVERYONE a fair shot. But after a while, she stumbled, fell... and turned the show into crap.... and I called her out for it, BIG TIME. Right now, I don't like EVERYTHING the show has to offer, but there are several things I'm excited about, especially the gaslighting of Ashley... the possbilities of Rafe, and Kay and Jill being poised for battle. It's like a plate of food, you may have a side dish that you don't care for... but if you can't find ANYTHING that you consider "good" on the show as we have it today, your'e simply overly critical and ridiculous. There are things that are bad, too (Chipmunk) but I also don't demand perfection from this show, Bill Bell didn't deliver it, and nobody else is, either. I mean, would today's fans have the patience to sit around for 6 months while stroke victim Molly Carter tries to utter the word "Baby"? I think not.