No, more clutter talk!

No, more clutter talk!

Phyllis needs a more dynamic love interest, not the eternal frat boy, and preferably one whose acting will raise the bar of Stafford's acting. Morrow doesn't challenge Stafford the way Bergman did, thus it is one of the many reasons Nick and Phyllis are dull and lack nuance.

....No, I meant strictly in the romantic sense.

And you're right, we're almost total opposites when it comes to this show. I also find myself agreeing with Sylph that you retionalize every bad thing about this show, but don't allow the same leeway to other shows, but I guess that's the "fanboi" in you.

BLAH to you Phick fanbois.

Amen!

Down with Phick and Shack!

I take a third view -- that Nick is basically a douchebag passively aggressively playing two women against each other. I might be in the minority though.

I am with you in the minority. Nick is such a two timing ass. Sharon, Phyllis and their fans fighting over Nick makes my brain hurt. This triangle with Jack thrown in works my last nerve. I have started changing the channel to get away from it.

Y&RWorldTurner is right about Morrow making Stafford look old. She is definitely aging and it shows more when Phyllis is with Nick. The desperate insecure nagging does not help.

I see lots of Mac dislike all over the boards. She does get some positive feedback. If Y&R's stylist can get her to look her age, I think CF would get lots more acceptance.

If Y&R's stylist can get her to look her age, I think CF would get lots more acceptance.

But is it really that superficial? Mac's look?

I think, actually, not even a stylist will fix what is ailing. CF is either not able to play the emotional beats (because now, in two interviews, she says it is moving too fast for her), or her take on the character (stuck in her shell...fighting her feelings) is not appealing to the audience...or both.

We'll see what this upcoming story twist does...but I do think if she does not succeed in that, it might be time to either consider giving her better direction, or cut bait.

It's the writers taking the easy way out. That's just lazy.

Yeah, even after all the million reunions I still don't buy Nick and Phyllis. He is always absent-minded when around her.

To me, Nick seems absent-minded because he is not present in any part of his life. He is awash in emotions over being torn between these two women. Like many men, he does not show how he is feeling. What I find irritating is that he reminds me of so many of my past boyfriends.

I love Phick. Despite being so damaged right now, Nick's maturity with Phyllis has really drawn me to this couple. I get the sense that people want Phyllis to stay a certain way. When she is not acting in that manner, some fans become frustrated. I admit, I want a little more sassy pants out of her. Josh can handle more of Michelle's fire. In fact, I would bet he'd welcome it.

MS nor JM have been happy with their character's storyline over the past year. In the past few months, they have both become more engaged in the material. Josh, and his vocal desire to stay in Phick as opposed to Shick, does not seem to be giving the same energy to Shick. It's a shame, too. It's a little bit of a disservice to Sharon Case but, to be fair, they had story together for 13 years before they were separated.

Michelle Stafford just wants a good story with solid material to play. I often ask what she has gotten out of this pairing. JM has grown as an actor but what about Michelle? A couple of people have said the Phick pairing has made her look older. I don't see that. Michelle has an energy and connection with Josh that she hasn't had with other actors. Don't get me wrong, you could put her with any actor on the show. But to this longtime fan, there is a crackle with JM that I have never seen in her pairings. Yeah, she crackles with Peter as well, but it lacks the same stirring romantic/sexual she's got going on with JM.

I like her with Peter quite a bit. They're great. But I love her with Josh.

If I ever see a rose pedal or candle opera in a Phick love scene, I will scream. I like them hot, sexy, and devoid of any sort of classic romantic trapping.

To me, Nick seems absent-minded because he is not present in any part of his life. He is awash in emotions over being torn between these two women. Like many men, he does not show how he is feeling. What I find irritating is that he reminds me of so many of my past boyfriends.

I love Phick. Despite being so damaged right now, Nick's maturity with Phyllis has really drawn me to this couple. I get the sense that people want Phyllis to stay a certain way. When she is not acting in that manner, some fans become frustrated. I admit, I want a little more sassy pants out of her. Josh can handle more of Michelle's fire. In fact, I would bet he'd welcome it.

<snip for brevity>

But to this longtime fan, there is a crackle with JM that I have never seen in her pairings. Yeah, she crackles with Peter as well, but it lacks the same stirring romantic/sexual she's got going on with JM.

I like her with Peter quite a bit. They're great. But I love her with Josh.

If I ever see a rose pedal or candle opera in a Phick love scene, I will scream. I like them hot, sexy, and devoid of any sort of classic romantic trapping.

You get it! Thank you! EXACTLY! Much better said than I ever could!

You get it! Thank you! EXACTLY! Much better said than I ever could!

LOL! Well, that's not true but thanks for agreeing with me.

And the Phyllis/Nick/Sharon fanbase war continues...

Here's my Phick perspective. For a story that is about Nick in the middle, Sharon as the (ludicrous) prize who can do no wrong no matter how much of a miserable slut she is and Phyllis as the outcasted underdog struggling to hold on to her marriage, Michelle Stafford is really the glue that holds this mess together. She is the flesh and bone WOMAN who is genuinely hurting, inexplicably wronged and crumbling inside while bolding chasing her dream of happiness and family with this man she adores more than she ever dreamed possible. She has the task of keeping the Phick fans engaged when there is literally nothing else to hang on to. When I have nowhere else to put my Phick boots under, I always ALWAYS have Michelle Stafford selling this couple. She does it in the tiniest scene, with the smallest dialogue or the most gutwrenching scene where Phyllis lays it all bare and they script Nick mutely standing before her with nothing to offer but the look in Joshua Morrow's eyes. MS is ferocious in this pairing. And she is so very lovely, vulnerable, giving and shows the wounds in Phyllis in such a manner that cause a lump to catch in my throat.

I have seen so many new things in her, in Phyllis as a result of Phick. For all the hits they have taken, when they get a little crumb they run with it and it's beyond compelling and beautiful. The episode where Phyllis cried how desperately she wanted to believe in Nick, and he stepped towards her and aggressively held on to her face and commanded her to kiss him, that was riveting to me. I could never fathom Nick and Sharon in a scene that provocative or emotionally rich. They are too constructed, too robotic and predictable in hitting every maudlin but ultimately empty note to share such passion and rawness together. Sometimes I get the feeling Morrow sees that this great pairing he unexpectedly found himself a part of is slipping through his fingers, and both he and Stafford are powerless to stop what MAB has in store. What MAB has been doing for months now.

After watching this upcoming Monday's show, I know for a fact that Phick are a couple that Y&R needs. Seriously. This show is short on dynamic, electrically charged couples - why would they kill the only one they have???

Edited May 17, 200916 yr by MSFanForever

And the Phyllis/Nick/Sharon fanbase war continues...

I'm not a member of any fanbase. Are you?

And the Phyllis/Nick/Sharon fanbase war continues...

How have these posts been a war? I have read postings supporting a pairing many of us like versus one that some do not. I don't even get the feeling that those who do not like Phick actually like Shick. Some posters just want Phyllis back to a certain characterization and away from Nick.

How have these posts been a war? I have read postings supporting a pairing many of us like versus one that some do not. I don't even get the feeling that those who do not like Phick actually like Shick. Some posters just want Phyllis back to a certain characterization and away from Nick.

Exactly. And others don't like Nick...and that especially colors their view of whatever couple he is in.

I find the discussion to have been civil, reasoned, based on "evidence". Why must this be derogated? Where else should this be discussed by those parties who seek to discuss it?

I note a tendency of late (not mostly from you Ann_SS, so please don't feel singled out) to direct the tenor of discussion...to decide what should and should not be discussed...how criticism should and should not be offered...

I repudiate such attempts on a discussion board. All opinions should be welcomed, and while I fully value respectful disagreements with evidence or emotion, ad hominem comments on posters or groups of posters really don't seem appropriate to me. My opinion....

Let's comment on what people say...not how they say it or who says it or why. How 'bout that as a proposal?

Edited May 17, 200916 yr by MarkH

Here's my Phick perspective. For a story that is about Nick in the middle, Sharon as the (ludicrous) prize who can do no wrong no matter how much of a miserable slut she is and Phyllis as the outcasted underdog struggling to hold on to her marriage, Michelle Stafford is really the glue that holds this mess together. She is the flesh and bone WOMAN who is genuinely hurting, inexplicably wronged and crumbling inside while bolding chasing her dream of happiness and family with this man she adores more than she ever dreamed possible. She has the task of keeping the Phick fans engaged when there is literally nothing else to hang on to. When I have nowhere else to put my Phick boots under, I always ALWAYS have Michelle Stafford selling this couple. She does it in the tiniest scene, with the smallest dialogue or the most gutwrenching scene where Phyllis lays it all bare and they script Nick mutely standing before her with nothing to offer but the look in Joshua Morrow's eyes. MS is ferocious in this pairing. And she is so very lovely, vulnerable, giving and shows the wounds in Phyllis in such a manner that cause a lump to catch in my throat.

I have seen so many new things in her, in Phyllis as a result of Phick. For all the hits they have taken, when they get a little crumb they run with it and it's beyond compelling and beautiful. The episode where Phyllis cried how desperately she wanted to believe in Nick, and he stepped towards her and aggressively held on to her face and commanded her to kiss him, that was riveting to me. I could never fathom Nick and Sharon in a scene that provocative or emotionally rich. They are too constructed, too robotic and predictable in hitting every maudlin but ultimately empty note to share such passion and rawness together. Sometimes I get the feeling Morrow sees that this great pairing he unexpectedly found himself a part of is slipping through his fingers, and both he and Stafford are powerless to stop what MAB has in store. What MAB has been doing for months now.

After watching this upcoming Monday's show, I know for a fact that Phick are a couple that Y&R needs. Seriously. This show is short on dynamic, electrically charged couples - why would they kill the only one they have???

Joshua Morrow said this to Michael Fairman last month.

Michelle is so incredible! The moments that take my breath away are when she says nothing. She does not have to say anything to convey the most impactful thing I have ever seen or witnessed. The scenes I have played where Nick has hurt Phyllis, are crushing to me as a human being. I see how it consumes her, like no other actor I have been around, and she is amazing. I could never say this to her face because I would get embarrassed and run away, but she has taught me more about acting than anyone in the world.

His statement confirms what you and MarkH have said about Stafford of late. It kills me that they have not given Nick anything to say but I assume they are waiting for the "payoffs" to do that. He'll tell Sharon he loves her too, at some point. Then down the road, he will make amends with Phyllis and say everything he is not saying now.

Writers want us frustrated and hanging.