I wrote the lines of text which you reposted in your last message. I just lifted a quote from Jacquie Courtney (about filming the dress rehearsal of the two-person ep) from memory of a vintage soap magazine article. Back in the day, I literally bought and read all of the publications, so I can't specify which one.

57 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

@vetsoapfan may know that. 

9 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

I wrote the lines of text which you reposted in your last message. I just lifted a quote from Jacquie Courtney (about filming the dress rehearsal of the two-person ep) from memory of a vintage soap magazine article. Back in the day, I literally bought and read all of the publications, so I can't specify which one.

Thanks for checking. I know I have some interviews with her from her AW years, but I have no idea where they are, so this is much appreciated.

2 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

 

I wrote the lines of text which you reposted in your last message. I just lifted a quote from Jacquie Courtney (about filming the dress rehearsal of the two-person ep) from memory of a vintage soap magazine article. Back in the day, I literally bought and read all of the publications, so I can't specify which one.

Thanks anyway, you've been super!!

10 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I guess Rauch's and Lemay's hostility toward Courtney and Reinholt overshadowed any memory or discussion of this moment.

I wonder how much promotion or coverage it got at the time and how long they spent on the planning. It's fascinating that the concept was not decided with the original script but rather edited from a conventional script.

 

12 hours ago, DRW50 said:

guess Rauch's and Lemay's hostility toward Courtney and Reinholt overshadowed any memory or discussion of this moment.

I was thinking about this. If Paul came out of the booth & usurped the director, which is what it sounds like, Pete may have been uninvolved. But, maybe it's just me but I don't think of them being personally hostile to GR & JC & Virginia Dwyer. As I understand it the firings were for cause. Now, George's reprehensible behavior went on all the time so that could have been an issue. And, JC the only problem was that Pete did not feel she could act. I wish I could turn back time & put her with an acting coach to change her style to whatever Pete wanted to hear & see! 

@DRW50   I sent the scan to Mike McGavin, who told me someone whose information is always suspect had been going on and on about the episode.

@vetsoapfan I also sent him your succinct posts about it. He and I have a good rapport, and help each other with a few casting/ storyline things often.

Thanks for the remarkable memory, @vetsoapfan.

On 9/13/2023 at 8:35 PM, Xanthe said:

I wonder how much promotion or coverage it got at the time and how long they spent on the planning. It's fascinating that the concept was not decided with the original script but rather edited from a conventional script.

 

That's why I have to begrudgingly give kudos to Paul Rauch, who made fairly last-minute changes to the concept of this episode, based on his (astute) belief that the Steve-Alice reconciliation would be historic, and deserved special treatment.

On 9/13/2023 at 9:34 PM, Donna L. Bridges said:

I was thinking about this. If Paul came out of the booth & usurped the director, which is what it sounds like, Pete may have been uninvolved. But, maybe it's just me but I don't think of them being personally hostile to GR & JC & Virginia Dwyer. As I understand it the firings were for cause. Now, George's reprehensible behavior went on all the time so that could have been an issue. And, JC the only problem was that Pete did not feel she could act. I wish I could turn back time & put her with an acting coach to change her style to whatever Pete wanted to hear & see! 

It was reported at the time that Rauch worked with the director to add depth and nuance to the Steve and Alice scenes, in order to "milk" the characters' long-awaited reconciliation and gratify the audience who had been vehemently calling for the pair to reunite.

Aside from Reinholt, whose backstage issues/behavior on both AW and OLTL have been well-documented, I just don't believe firing Courtney and Dwyer was "for cause." Lemay simply had an irrational hatred for both women. The justifications he used in his book to fight for their dismissal were blatantly ridiculous and hypocritical. Considering that Courtney consistently ranked at the top of audience popularity polls and was awarded for her acting multiple times (in Daytime TV, Daily TV Serials, Afternoon  TV magazines, etc.), it wasn't her acting that needed to be changed to placate a petulant writer; Lemay needed to get over himself and accept that it's destructive to fire hugely popular leads from any series based on personal ire.

2 hours ago, slick jones said:

@DRW50   I sent the scan to Mike McGavin, who told me someone whose information is always suspect had been going on and on about the episode.

@vetsoapfan I also sent him your succinct posts about it. He and I have a good rapport, and help each other with a few casting/ storyline things often.

Thanks for the remarkable memory, @vetsoapfan.

Someone who is less-than credible has been "going on and on" about the Mike and Nancy episode from TEON, or the Steve and Alice one from AW?

I cannot and do not remember every single thing about soaps gone by (alas!), but the Alice/Steve/Rachel triangle is/was my all-time favorite soap opera saga, and I do remember it (including specific scenes and dialogue) quite well.

The ONLY good thing about my being older than Methusela is that I was "there" to witness, first-hand, the halcyon days of daytime TV.

2 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Aside from Reinholt, whose backstage issues/behavior on both AW and OLTL have been well-documented, I just don't believe firing Courtney and Dwyer was "for cause." Lemay simply had an irrational hatred for both women. The justifications he used in his book to fight for their dismissal were blatantly ridiculous and hypocritical. Considering that Courtney consistently ranked at the top of audience popularity polls and was awarded for her acting multiple times (in Daytime TV, Daily TV Serials, Afternoon  TV magazines, etc.), it wasn't her acting that needed to be changed to placate a petulant writer; Lemay needed to get over himself and accept that it's destructive to fire hugely popular leads from any series based on personal ire.

The more I read that book, the more I think that there may have been some actual scheming on Lemay’s part in order to get Jacqui Courtney and George Reinholt to leave the show. 

3 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

I just don't believe firing Courtney and Dwyer was "for cause." Lemay simply had an irrational hatred for both women.

We shall just have to agree to disagree because this is not at all my understanding of the situation. I believe Pete's account of Dwyer refusing to learn her lines & insisting that she knew what Mary would think & say in each circumstance. 

And, while I do not agree with Pete that JC could not act I do understand that he was not getting what he wanted out of her acting which is why to my way of thinking an acting coach would have been the appropriate action to take. And, popularity polls have nothing necessarily to do with whether a writer is getting what they are after in scenes. 

6 hours ago, slick jones said:

@DRW50   I sent the scan to Mike McGavin, who told me someone whose information is always suspect had been going on and on about the episode.

@vetsoapfan I also sent him your succinct posts about it. He and I have a good rapport, and help each other with a few casting/ storyline things often.

Thanks for the remarkable memory, @vetsoapfan.

Well, it's very interesting that I had already sent everything to Eddie that you felt the need to duplicate that by sending to Mike. 

1 hour ago, AbcNbc247 said:

The more I read that book, the more I think that there may have been some actual scheming on Lemay’s part in order to get Jacqui Courtney and George Reinholt to leave the show. 

Boy, I do not get anything remotely like that out of reading his book. Interpretation can be a very interesting thing. 

What I understand from all this is that Rauch and Lemay sabotaged their own show by overestimating Wyndham's (or Mac and Rachel's?) star power and getting rid of major parts of AW's fabric. I can't know why they did this, but they messed things up. 

I'm sure Jacquie would have been thrilled to have an acting coach suggested for her.

Lemay from a theater background, preferred stage actors overall. His first encounter on the set with Jacquie was her referring to her lines hidden all over the set. That first impression stayed with him.

When he arrived Paul Rauch was already planning to drop Margie Impert as Rachel. She had been a Lyle Hill hire and he was not impressed. 

1 hour ago, Sapounopera said:

What I understand from all this is that Rauch and Lemay sabotaged their own show by overestimating Wyndham's (or Mac and Rachel's?) star power and getting rid of major parts of AW's fabric. I can't know why they did this, but they messed things up. 

I would say rather they underestimated Jacqueline Courtney's star power. They did keep Alice on the canvas with recasts and it was later regimes in the 1980s that dispensed with the character and started killing off the younger Matthewses (Sally and Julia).

Likewise, Mac and Rachel and Iris (don't forget about Beverlee McKinsey's star power!) do seem to have been effective in their heyday and it was the Texas spinoff that diluted AW. 

 

8 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

I just don't believe firing Courtney and Dwyer was "for cause." Lemay simply had an irrational hatred for both women. The justifications he used in his book to fight for their dismissal were blatantly ridiculous and hypocritical. Considering that Courtney consistently ranked at the top of audience popularity polls and was awarded for her acting multiple times (in Daytime TV, Daily TV Serials, Afternoon  TV magazines, etc.), it wasn't her acting that needed to be changed to placate a petulant writer; Lemay needed to get over himself and accept that it's destructive to fire hugely popular leads from any series based on personal ire.

Lemay was a wonderful writer, but he often allowed his ego to get in his way.  He did not like actors who were known as soap opera stars (Dwyer and Courtney, for example), regardless of their acting talent, popularity, or status on the show.  He claimed to have populated Another World with actors he "grabbed" from the theater, but actually nearly every major role cast during Lemay's tenure was cast with a former soap actor who also had theater experience (which was typical for all New York soaps).  He did grab a few theater actors directly off the stage, but nearly all of those had minor and temporary roles on AW.

Lemay also did not understand the purpose or importance of the traditional soap opera matriarch (Nancy Hughes, Mary Matthews, Alice Horton, for example).  Plus he did not like writing for happy characters who had little conflict. (If you notice, nearly all important characters on AW during Lemay's run were fundamentally unhappy people.)  So he set about to turn Mary Matthews into an unlikeable meddling shrew, who would stir up trouble for her adult children.  That is more the Phoebe Tyler, Liz Matthews, Mona Croft type of character.  Virginia Dwyer knew that this would not work for Mary, so she worked to minimize his efforts.  She did play some of it however -- specifically when Mary turned against Steve and actively discouraged Alice from returning to him. In reality, Lemay wanted Mary to behave like Liz Matthews. He clearly explains this in his book.  When Dwyer didn't play it his way, Lemay hired Irene Daily to return as Liz and minimized Mary's presence on the show by having Mary often out of town, or by simply not writing for her much at all.   He also more and more gave Mary's lines to other characters -- specifically Liz and Ada during important scenes.  Lemay's ego and his growing hatred for Dwyer (and Courtney) should have been controlled by someone in management -- either Paul Rauch, or higher-ups at P&G.  Lemay could have written everything he wanted to write, without dismantling the structure of the show.  But again -- ego.

So within a four-year period, Another World lost five leading actors (four were fired, and one left for Hollywood).  Those five are Virginia Dwyer, Susan Sullivan, Jacquie Courtney, George Reinholt (all in 1975), and Michael Ryan (in 1979). Four of the five were important members of the Matthews family.   

Edited September 15, 20232 yr by Neil Johnson

4 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

What I understand from all this is that Rauch and Lemay sabotaged their own show by overestimating Wyndham's (or Mac and Rachel's?) star power and getting rid of major parts of AW's fabric. I can't know why they did this, but they messed things up. 

My goodness, I certainly do not agree with your take on this but I wonder if you are aware of all that was written, said, documented, etc. about Reinholt's behavior that pushed Rauch to the point of having to take action when Reinholt would not take anyone's direction about his being disruptive to cast & crew alike. Believe me, I am not at all accustomed to being a defender of Paul Rauch but he did do some things right. To name a few, firing Reinholt, this example of a special Steve/Alice episode, trying to keep CBS from making GL do the clone storyline & fighting tooth & nail for his shows. When he died, even though he was retired he was putting parties together to try to find a new venue for GL. 

3 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

I'm sure Jacquie would have been thrilled to have an acting coach suggested for her.

Thank God for small favors! Thanks, Paul, at least you & I can see that an acting coach might have made some sense! And, I agree that JC would have been more than delighted. I do not know if they were in the habit of using acting coaches then, but if they didn't, they should have!