I've always thought that AW should have used a globe of some sort for one of its openings ala ATWT. The '81-'87 opening in space would have been good. But yeah, the concentric circles were part of AW history for 23 years.

Yeah, and the Crystal Gayle/Gary Morris credits had a faint poster paint circle swirling around each character shot, in some cases pretty much absent. Circles are such an easy motif, you could do a million creative things and I agree that they should have never ditched their brand logo.

Anderson was the one who ended the Reginald story, Donna's miscarriage, Nicole and her mother looking alike, Jason's intro? I thought that was a mess.

Jason Frame came to Bay City per Exec Producer Michael Liabson. He wanted to bring the Frames back to Bay City. Instead of bringing back Willis or Vince, he introduced a brother that was never mentioned before.

I wasn't a fan of any of the Peter's as characters or actors, but I kind of liked the last Peter as a villain. Same with the Nicole's. I didn't care for any of the actresses or the character although I thought Ann Howard's last few months as desperate, crazy Nicole were kind of good. I had hoped Nicole would have been revealed to have been Jason Frame's daughter. There were hints of that at one point, but it went nowhere. It might have been cool to have her find this out after she killed him.

Replacing Mary Page Keller with a stunt recast like Taylor Miller was a flop for me, but killing off Sally was a HUGE mistake. She was too important of a character to die and basically not be thought of again.

I agree. I think what would have been smart was in 1989 after the theme of " 25 years of lovers and others" Anniversary special. First thing should have hooked Rachel back up with Russ Matthews. David Baily was back playing the role. Second, bring Jacquline Courtney back as Alice Frame with a ghost following her around. Finally to have it revealed Sally Frame. It would have been great if they bought Mary Page Keller back as she is the adult Sally that I know. Cathy Greene was so cute as Sally and then she changed into so many different type of people once she was recast. Taylor Miller was the worst recast they ever did as Sally Frame.

Maybe introduce a son or daughter of Gwen and Willis instead of introducing Dean Frame (from an unknown Frame, known as Henry offspring) stupid

I rather liked Cheryl, but I see your point. I agree that MJ was needy and helpless though, at least with Sally Spencer playing the part and she was by then. MJ was not at all a victim when Kathleen Layman played her- she was much stronger and a very good cop. I loved Layman and have often wondered why AW let her go and replaced her with Spencer. Was she fired? Did she quit? Does anyone have any idea? I honestly don't believe I've posed that question before so if anyone is able to enlighten us with the answer (paging all lurkers or maybe thelma or denzo30

I'm not sure they were 100% sure that Julie Osburn wasn't coming back as Kathleen either. I believe that it was always the plan for Cass to return in 6 months- wasn't it Schnetzer's choice to take a break from the show? I think they may have thought they worked out the same thing with Osburn as well and that she'd return in 6 months with Schnetzer.

I'm not certain about this though. I think it was always the plan for Schnetzer to come back (and Osburn to join him) but if anyone has any information or online sources for this information, please post it!

I sort of agree with this and sort of don't. I think that Denise was given a thankless and pointless character who was virtually isolated from most of the the characters in the cast. I'm pretty sure her main interactions were with the Loves, Michael, her own family, and a sprinkle of Cass & Felicia.

I don't remember her interacting with Rachel & Mac at all, at least on a one-on-one basis. I'm sure they shared scenes in party sequences or if Mac & Rachel ever came into Mary's Place but not much else. The storyline with Reginald, Vince, Mary's amnesia, and Scott's real parents was a muddled, convuluted mess and it's the only real story Denise/Mary McKinnon was given. After that was over, she didn't do much except work for Michael and dispense advice to Cheryl (her last remaining biological child) and Scott. I don't even think she had much interaction with Jake when Tom Eplin returned to the show!

Ah! maybe I should keep a lower profile. I guess I have been out here too much. I really dont know what happen with Layman. From a character standpoint, they probably wanted another actress to bring on a different persona. AW did that too much in my eyes. I really did not pay attention to the character too much. During these days, is when I spent the least time watching AW. I would watch it but it was hard to do since it seemed so stupid and unrealistic. Also, this was the early introduction of the Mckinnons, so I think they wanted an actress to look and act different

I'm sure Denise is a fine, talented actress (my mother raves about her portrayal of Susan Hunter(Martin?) on DAYS) but I did not care for her on AW and haven't seen her work on any other soap (I've never really been a GH fan and the few times over the years that I've watched, I haven't ever caught Leslie Webber).

Shoot, I don't believe I ever got to see this. Did it make it to air on SoapNet? I can't remember- I just know they were getting to the meat of the Kathleen/Cass/Frankie triangle when it went off.

I know she was at Mac's funeral in 1989, but did she make an appearance for Ada's funeral when Connie Ford died in 1993? I know they brought some characters back for that (Larry & Clarice came back, didn't they? Or am I confusing that with Mac's funeral? I know there were some characters who returned for both but I can't remember who exactly.

Either way, I do agree that Alexander should have been kept around in a recurring capacity in 1991 when Kathleen returned. Hell, I think that Robert Hogan's Vince should have been recurring for that as well.

Did Vince return with Mary to reunite with Kathleen? It only seems fitting that he would.

I think Lemay consulted at ATWT and AW during the mid-90's. I remember him complaining about ATWT having 3 mega-millionaires with 3 private jets (Cal, Damian, Lucinda). I saw his point, but then, he really helped popularize that in P&G soaps (ATWT and GL had had "mogul" characters, but they were always outsiders, like Stanley Norris or that guy Jerry Lacy played on ATWT; Mac Cory was the first mega millionaire mogul who became the heart of a P&G soap).

What did you think of Vince? I've seen little of him. Just mostly supporting stuff, and his girlfriend, the waitress, when John Randolph died and Marianne was at the diner.

I'm not sure how Lemay would have worked out in the late 80's AW long term but his 1988 material was damn good.

Vince had a bad boy image but he had a great heart with his evil brother Willis. Most of the Frames were bad. Funny, Lemay based off his family. Jason, WIllis, Janice, and Sharlene was not bad but nuts. Emma obvisously had problems

I saw Vince as an uncomplicated blue collar guy rather than a bad boy. An Angie (Maeve Kinkead) prop more than anything. A bit of a Mr. Spock. There was a place for him if they`d had more imagination.

BTW, I loved her then. In my ten year-old mind she could do no wrong.

She was incredibly beautiful and talented. It was as if they could not decide on making her a bitch or ingenue. Either one could have worked. The Perrini family had such a naturally strong foothold in the show with her, Rose (Kathy Widdoes), and Joey (Ray Liotta).

They all went on to varying levels of career fulfillment. AWs loss.

Damn you Paul Rauch.

Sorry to hear about Roberts Blossom. He had such an impressive resume but his portrayal of Sven was so memorable that every time I saw him, I thought of Sven.

Poor Rocky. He was also the butcher on the Shake `n Bake for pork chops commercial back then

Edited July 23, 201114 yr by Paul Raven

I was reading a late 91 Digest that talked about why actors left shows. They had some discussion with Cali Timmins, which helped shed some light on exactly why they recast her. For a long time I'd just assumed they were waiting until Judi Evans was available but that seems less and less likely.

She says in the article that she felt Paulina was becoming more and more of a victim. She was upset about this. She spoke with TPTB several times and never got a response. Finally, a day after an Emmy party, she was told she'd been replaced.

Michael Laibson just said something to the effect that she couldn't find the strength in the character and that it was a bad mix of actor and character, and he wished her well.

I do see her point - Paulina became very weak in the last 6 months of Cali's run (although Paulina had never been a tough heroine anyway).

I wish she hadn't left that way. But I guess she was prophetic, especially considering the mess Paulina was in the last 3-4 years on AW.

I was reading a late 91 Digest that talked about why actors left shows. They had some discussion with Cali Timmins, which helped shed some light on exactly why they recast her. For a long time I'd just assumed they were waiting until Judi Evans was available but that seems less and less likely.

She says in the article that she felt Paulina was becoming more and more of a victim. She was upset about this. She spoke with TPTB several times and never got a response. Finally, a day after an Emmy party, she was told she'd been replaced.

Michael Laibson just said something to the effect that she couldn't find the strength in the character and that it was a bad mix of actor and character, and he wished her well.

I do see her point - Paulina became very weak in the last 6 months of Cali's run (although Paulina had never been a tough heroine anyway).

I wish she hadn't left that way. But I guess she was prophetic, especially considering the mess Paulina was in the last 3-4 years on AW.

Thanks for the recap of the article. I always wondered why she was replaced too.

I loved Cali as Paulina. I don't know what it is about her, but she's an appealing actress. Not a powerhouse maybe, but there's something special about her. I also could totally buy her and Sandra Fergusen as half sisters and I loved how she played off Carmen Duncan. It's a shame they replaced her. Judi Evans didn't have the same icy sexuality as Cali. I grew to like her in the role (and I loathed her as Beth Raines) even though, you're right, the character became a big mess. I couldn't stand her with Joe.

Great thread!

A couple of thoughts. First, I never understood the need for the Jason Frame character when you already had two established Frame brothers (Willis and Vince) that you could have introduced. Jason was very much like Willis, except that he never got the taste of the high life that Willis did during his first time in Bay City. Also, Chris Robinson would have been a very solid Willis recast, possibly even better than he was as Jason Frame.

The disappearance of Irene Dailey (Liz) in late 1992/early 1993 was one of the greatest mistakes the show made in its final years. While its true that Liz had limited story possibilities and no family on the canvas, she was one of those great tentpole characters who really served as the voice of the audience. Much like they did with Eileen Herlie's Myrtle on AMC, AW could have used Liz as a support/surrogate mother-grandmother for a number of characters. This was especially true after the death of Connie Ford. This would not have been a stretch either. Dailey was one of daytime's finest actresses and had great rapport with a number of actors (Matt Crane, Sandra Ferguson, and Stephen Schnetzer) who were not part of the Matthews orbit. Liz and Cass, for example, were hysterical together in 1988 when they worked to fight the Cory takeover and later partnered in Nicole's salon.

If I recall correctly, Irene Dailey was let go during the 1986 bloodbath that saw the exits of Gail Brown, Rick Porter, and Taylor Miller, among others.

A screenname like that is quite a pedigree!

The only way I can see them creating a new character for Robinson is that they may have wanted a blank slate in order to explain his backstory with Mary. Either way, it did seem pointless.

I agree that they should have kept Liz around. I think the problem for her was that she and Rachel were never very close, and she wasn't overly close to the Corys, outside of Mac. They could have expanded on these relationships. I also wish they'd brought in another young Matthews (I'm sure Susan could have had some kids) to spend time with Liz. Or she could have been close to Cass, which would have caused conflict with Frankie, given Liz's hatred of the Frames.

Irene was fired in 1986, yes. She returned in late 1987. I remember her returning from San Francisco wearing sunglasses and vamping it up to Mac, for a laugh.

I agree that they should have kept Liz around. I think the problem for her was that she and Rachel were never very close, and she wasn't overly close to the Corys, outside of Mac. They could have expanded on these relationships. I also wish they'd brought in another young Matthews (I'm sure Susan could have had some kids) to spend time with Liz. Or she could have been close to Cass, which would have caused conflict with Frankie, given Liz's hatred of the Frames.

I also wish they had kept Aunt Liz around. She was a favorite of mine. After Ada died, it might have been interesting to see her grow into a confidant or mother figure to Rachel. Can you imagine her reaction to Rachel dating and marrying Carl Hutchins?

I think if they really had cared about the actress and the character, something could have been done to keep her on the show. Josie, who was on the show up to the end was her great-niece. I would have loved to have seen Liz and Sharlene duel over what was best for Josie or Liz trying to turn her into a proper Matthews family member. I barely remember the two interacting at all after Russ was revealed as her father.

Agree,Liz was wasted.They could have also brought back mike,Marianne or her 'grandson' Ricky.

Does anyone remember these special episodes? I don't recall them Making much of an impression.

Does anyone remember these special episodes? I don't recall them Making much of an impression.

Edited July 31, 201114 yr by Paul Raven