On 12/7/2023 at 5:33 AM, Xanthe said:

Thin air is where a lot of characters appear from, especially love children

That's the leap of faith that frequently annoys me on soaps.  A character moves to town, and years later multiple people from their past happen to move to the same small town.  People like Sandy and Victoria makes sense because they came knowing that their parent lived in Bay City.  But, Lucas happened to share a past with Felicia on the East Coast (I assume they grew up in the mid-Atlantic region) and Sharlene on the west coast (I assume they met when she was a sex worker in San Francisco). And then, by chance, ran into both in a small town in the Midwest?  That strains credulity, but it is a constant issue for legacy character written by successive writers, who suddenly exist as if they grew up in the soap town despite long term viewers knowing that they moved there as an adult.

52 minutes ago, j swift said:

A character moves to town, and years later multiple people from their past happen to move to the same small town.

This is along the same line I think: a character such as Cass Winthrop has a sister like Stacy who moves to town and leaves. Yet, years later when Cass's brother Morgan shows up, did either of them mention their sister Stacy? (If they did, I apologize, I just don't remember it.) It's as if Stacy and Morgan existed in different universes.

Something similar happened on Matlock: he had a daughter named Charlene when the show started and many years later, he had a daughter named Lianne. But I don't recall Matlock saying he had two daughters or ever mentioning the earlier daughter when talking to the latter daughter.

16 minutes ago, China Jones said:

Something similar happened on Matlock: he had a daughter named Charlene when the show started and many years later, he had a daughter named Lianne. But I don't recall Matlock saying he had two daughters or ever mentioning the earlier daughter when talking to the latter daughter.

I think Ben Matlock made an oblique reference to Charlene when Leanne first arrived, but I can't be sure.  As on "The Andy Griffith Show," however, Ben rarely, if ever, mentioned his late wife.

6 hours ago, j swift said:

That's the leap of faith that frequently annoys me on soaps.  A character moves to town, and years later multiple people from their past happen to move to the same small town.  People like Sandy and Victoria makes sense because they came knowing that their parent lived in Bay City.  But, Lucas happened to share a past with Felicia on the East Coast (I assume they grew up in the mid-Atlantic region) and Sharlene on the west coast (I assume they met when she was a sex worker in San Francisco). And then, by chance, ran into both in a small town in the Midwest?  That strains credulity, but it is a constant issue for legacy character written by successive writers, who suddenly exist as if they grew up in the soap town despite long term viewers knowing that they moved there as an adult.

Also in the category of "small world": the reveal that Michael Hudson, who had also allegedly known Rachel when he was a child, had had a serious love affair with Iris when they knew each other in Europe. 

 

The full version of this episode (12/24/86) is up on Eddie Drueding's account. This version does have vintage commercials, so I am posting the link here just for that reason.

 

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

The full version of this episode (12/24/86) is up on Eddie Drueding's account. This version does have vintage commercials, so I am posting the link here just for that reason.

 

Thank you! Is Janine Turner in this episode or only discussed? I always blur together Janine as Scott's girlfriend Patricia Kirkland (probably no relation to Justine, 😜) and Rena Sofer as Sam's girlfriend Joyce Abernathy.

14 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

Thank you! Is Janine Turner in this episode or only discussed? I always blur together Janine as Scott's girlfriend Patricia Kirkland (probably no relation to Justine, 😜) and Rena Sofer as Sam's girlfriend Joyce Abernathy.

She shows up about 2 minutes in and has later scenes as well.

On 12/9/2023 at 9:07 PM, Xanthe said:

Also in the category of "small world": the reveal that Michael Hudson, who had also allegedly known Rachel when he was a child, had had a serious love affair with Iris when they knew each other in Europe. 

 

Most people probably realize the Micheal/Rachel childhood (or high-school) connection contradicts Agnes Nixon's established history that Ada and Rachel moved to Bay City after Rachel had finished high-school.  Actually I believe Harding Lemay was the first AW writer to contradict Rachel's original origin story, when he wrote that Rachel remembered walking past what became the Cory mansion on her way to school.  Again, Rachel didn't even live in Bay City while she was in school.  Of course, character histories are revised all the time on soap operas, but I've always felt that was unfortunate and unnecessary.  

Edited December 18, 20231 yr by Mona Kane Croft

2 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Rachel remembered walking past what became the Cory mansion on her way to school.  Again, Rachel didn't even live in Bay City while she was in school

She could have just said she remembered it as a young woman when she arrived in Bay City.

6 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Most people probably realize the Micheal/Rachel childhood (or high-school) connection contradicts Agnes Nixon's established history that Ada and Rachel moved to Bay City after Rachel had finished high-school.  Actually I believe Harding Lemay was the first AW writer to contradict Rachel's original origin story, when he wrote that Rachel remembered walking past what became the Cory mansion on her way to school.  Again, Rachel didn't even live in Bay City while she was in school.  Of course, character histories are revised all the time on soap operas, but I've always felt that was unfortunate and unnecessary.  

I remember Lemay saying in his book that there was no established history he could use, as it was a lengthy letter from a Pat fan that told him about her background.

Edited December 18, 20231 yr by DRW50

9 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

She could have just said she remembered it as a young woman when she arrived in Bay City.

Yes, that would have been a way to send the same sentiment, while using more accurate established history.  

4 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I remember Lemay saying in his book that there was no established history he could use, as it was a lengthy letter from a Pat fan that told him about her background.

11 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Most people probably realize the Micheal/Rachel childhood (or high-school) connection contradicts Agnes Nixon's established history that Ada and Rachel moved to Bay City after Rachel had finished high-school.  Actually I believe Harding Lemay was the first AW writer to contradict Rachel's original origin story, when he wrote that Rachel remembered walking past what became the Cory mansion on her way to school.  Again, Rachel didn't even live in Bay City while she was in school.  Of course, character histories are revised all the time on soap operas, but I've always felt that was unfortunate and unnecessary.  

It contradicted a lot of things. 

Michael and Donna were supposed to have been like 17 when she had Vicky and Marley. And when Michael was introduced into the show, Vicky and Marley were 18. But Jamie was supposed to be a lot older than 18 at the time. So, how could Michael and Rachel have gone to HS together? Unless they were saying that Rachel had Jamie when she was like 13 😂😂 

4 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I remember Lemay saying in his book that there was no established history he could use, as it was a lengthy letter from a Pat fan that told him about her background.

I'm surprised Lemay didn't have access to character histories in 1971, when those things were taken more seriously on soap operas.  It's too bad, because the existing characters on AW at that time all had detailed histories which could have been mined and woven into Lemay's plots.  And I remember, he did do that to a degree with Pat, Lenore, and Rachel.

Off topic a bit, but still pertaining to changing history for the sake of plot -- Does anyone else remember in the mid-1980s on Guiding Light, when Pam Long wrote an umbrella plot that declared that every major family in Springfield had been in town for generations, when the only two that had been were the Reardons and possibly the Chamberlins??  While any fan who'd been watching GL for more than 8 or 9 years would have known that the Bauers, Spauldings and Lewis's all moved to town on-screen post-1966.   I liked the Pam's plot, but hated the major rewrite of the families.  With a little effort and creative thinking, she probably could have made the plot work, while still respecting history.   

Edited December 18, 20231 yr by Mona Kane Croft

12 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Michael and Donna were supposed to have been like 17 when she had Vicky and Marley. And when Michael was introduced into the show, Vicky and Marley were 18. But Jamie was supposed to be a lot older than 18 at the time. So, how could Michael and Rachel have gone to HS together? Unless they were saying that Rachel had Jamie when she was like 13

You are correct.  But I remember Jamie was sorased rather quickly.  He was born around 1970, and was a young adult by 1978.  So that confused several character ages (particularly Rachel,  Alice, Dennis, Michael and Marianne, etc.).  Does anyone know for sure how old Victoria Wyndham was  when Tim Holcomb assumed the role of young adult Jamie in 1978? Or Richard Bekins took over the role in 1979?  I would assume VW was no older than around 35 -- maybe younger.  

1 minute ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

You are correct.  But I remember Jamie was sorased rather quickly.  He was born around 1970, and was a young adult by 1978.  So that confused several character ages (particularly Rachel,  Alice, Dennis, Michael and Marianne, etc.).  Does anyone know for sure how old Victoria Wyndham was  when Tim Holcomb assumed the role of young adult Jamie in 1978? Or Richard Bekins took over the role in 1979?  I would assume VW was no older than around 35 -- maybe younger.  

VW turned 33 in 1978.

Edited December 18, 20231 yr by AbcNbc247