Why would an hourlong show only need five writers? Would said show eliminate the breakdown position and would the headwriter(who, in more cases than not, has an ego anyway) write a script for an episode, on his/her own instructions, rather than having a breakdown writer map the path for him?

I recall several credit crawls from Y&R in the late 80s/early 90s that only featured 5 writers including Bill Bell. I don't think they would refuse credit to all those involved.

The formula is: 3 breakdown writers, 1 script editor, 5 dialogue writers.

The formula is: 3 breakdown writers, 1 script editor, 5 dialogue writers.

We all know where the breakdown position has gone for most soaps...

But sadly, even that standard formula you listed isn't enough.

I recall several credit crawls from Y&R in the late 80s/early 90s that only featured 5 writers including Bill Bell. I don't think they would refuse credit to all those involved.

But how do we know if Y&R credited every writing team member everyday?

We all know where the breakdown position has gone for most soaps...

But sadly, even that standard formula you listed isn't enough.

I know some soaps were never writers'-room soaps, one problem occured when they got rid of that one from the others that were.

And no BDWs is another problem. I could also settle for 4 SWs. Perhaps 3, with someone doing double duty occasionally.

I don't understand why they need 8 writers to write a 60 mintue show? In the 70's, Y&R was written by TWO people (Bill Bell and Kay Alden, some eppies were written by Bell alone)... a 30 minute serial. Why can't they do the job with 5? I have another idea... tell me if this is feasible. Would it help the soaps' budgets to go to only 4 episodes a week? take one day a week (Call it way back wednesday, or flashback friday.. however you want to package it) and air a classic episode 1 day a week, and have one of the Y&R actors film a short "introduction" to the eppy each week, giving any background that's relevant for that week's episode, the original airdate, etc... Would this help? Viewers seem to really like flashback and classic eps.

Edited March 31, 200916 yr by alphanguy74

I don't understand why they need 8 writers to write a 60 mintue show? In the 70's, Y&R was written by TWO people (Bill Bell and Kay Alden, some eppies were written by Bell alone)... a 30 minute serial. Why can't they do the job with 5?

That was in the era before mass production took effect in order to slash production costs. The more writers you have, the more episodes get written, thus the faster a show is produced. Time is money, and it's been more evident in the past decade or so.

I have another idea... tell me if this is feasible. Would it help the soaps' budgets to go to only 4 episodes a week? take one day a week (Call it way back wednesday, or flashbakc friday.. however you want to package it) and air a classic episode 1 day a week, and ahve one of the Y&R actors film a short "introduction" to the eppy each week, giving any background that's relevany for that week's episode, the original airdate, etc... Would this help? Viewers seem to really like flashback and classic eps.

Classic, or re-run soap episodes do not bring in the ratings. We've seen that when CBS airs the rare "classic" Y&R or B&B ratings aren't there. The networks wouldn't know what to do with one free day during the week, and costs would probably be to much to air a show once a week in daytime.

Edited March 31, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

Let me explain this further, I cannot resist. Y&R is not the best soap on a planetary basis nor is it the best soap there ever was nor is this the best Y&R has ever been (Rome). It's the best in a little "village" called US daytime.

Nice one Sylph. Everything is relative. I cannot even get through one hour of Y&R anymore. Yet I know all things considered, it is the "highest quality" soap.

In case of ATWT and GL with the yearly renewals this could happen.

B&B and Y&R have longterm deals with the network - with B&B up next (?) year and in store for a serious slashing, I assume, considering current ratings - which CBS of course could try to renegotiate but the Bells are in a more comfy position since it's much harder to find a replacement for a 5 day programme than a primetime series you can replace with a special 60 Minutes or so...

That said; both Bell productions have trimmed their behind the scenes staff in recent months. They did cut all freelancers in sound/camera/editing and even the contracted staff has been slightly cut back.

Looks like this could be true, I've heard rumblings about some soaps cutting their crew down, letting go of people who've been there for 20 years plus.

You know that whole story of how Julius Caesar once said he'd rather be first in a village than second in Rome? That's what's happening here. Y&R is the best because all the others — suck. (Another problem is that people aren't really offering a 32nd chance to win them over to their shows...) And this is nothing new. Consistency is what made Y&R stay at the top. Not so much the beauty of its stories.

System would be even more efficient if those writers weren't so different among themselves. But that's not the only thing that's not working out: GH people are different, yet as a team — they're great. Y&R does not have a team, it has executioners, people who do stuff for money. (God, that sounded dumb... But I hope you'll get the point.)

Furthermore, someone has to pay those 47 writers. Meaning — less money for Jess Walton. Or whomever else...

Big teams don't work.

Well, I'm not sure I agree about big teams...but I also don't profess to have knowledge of the writing process.

In general, if you have an effective coordinatorial system, i.e., quality control, there is something to be said for having that diversity of voices that you harness into a common product. That makes the show sound like it contains real people.

It is tricky. I do believe what Kay Alden said: the show SHOULD sound like the show. But I have enjoyed seeing different writers mostly script episodes related to particular characters...one gets a sense of a consistent voice behind each character.

Now, let me also say that 47 writers don't have to cost that much...one would assume that they get paid less than writers on a team with higher per-writer workloads.

Finally, you seem to deride consistency as a basis for supremacy. This is a long story that I can't get into here, but there are good reasons to prefer consistency over high level achievement. High level of achievement, by its very nature, usually can't be maintained. Consistency therefore is more sustainable, from a homeostatic perspective.

In living systems, for example, it is the CONSISTENT organism that thrives, not usually the extremes.

Let me explain this further, I cannot resist. Y&R is not the best soap on a planetary basis nor is it the best soap there ever was nor is this the best Y&R has ever been (Rome). It's the best in a little "village" called US daytime.

I make no claims to broader knowledge. I am content to restrict the range of "greatness" or "supremacy" to US daytime.

Most soaps have small writing teams at the moment, and they're all in the crapper. I no longer see how a big or small writing team makes any difference. The evidence isn't there anymore to back either side up.

Exactly. I support this conclusion fully.

The formula is: 3 breakdown writers, 1 script editor, 5 dialogue writers.

What is the empirical basis for the superiority of this size? And where is the HW in this formula?

Let me say that organizational research sort of backs up what you say, in that real problems begin to emerge when team sizes get too large.

But I am focused on MAB's team specifically, and the quality of the product I'm seeing on a daily basis. What I think I am seeing is that each episode is clearly tied -- in plot, characterization, and "voice" -- to the recent and distant episodes that preceded it.

This is quite different from LML's days.

More importantly, when you have that clear "through line" across episodes, it either speak to excellent up front directions, or excellent post-draft quality control/editing and continuity management. I see that happening.

When you have this excellent pre- and post-coordination, team size becomes an irrelevant factor.

I know some soaps were never writers'-room soaps, one problem occured when they got rid of that one from the others that were.

And no BDWs is another problem. I could also settle for 4 SWs. Perhaps 3, with someone doing double duty occasionally.

I speak, again, not as anyone who knows a THING about writing, but who knows just a smidgen (that's all) about organizational management.

Edited March 31, 200916 yr by MarkH

I haven't noticed too many changes in the credits with regard to the camera/sound/editing people at B&B? Am I missing something?

That might have been because of the limited work schedule leading up to their Christmas hiatus and/or that week they had the shortened episodes for the NCAA Tourney. Either that, or maybe Y&R/B&B refuses to credit them and, instead, chooses to credit others that they deem more important to the process(i.e. the recent additions to the credits that include the international marketing and distribution team). But as I've said, I might be missing something.

B&B camera standard crew consists of three people, some years ago it would have been four or five. On Y&R they gone down thrown five to six down to three to four in the last couple of months. Sth. similar has happened to most other departments as well.

As Y&RWorldTurner mentioned it: two (probably costly) longtime staffers seem to be gone (I don't know their age but assume their still below retirement age) Scha Jani and Charles Guzzi, although they could also be doing Survivor or any other CBS reality crap.

Classic, or re-run soap episodes do not bring in the ratings. We've seen that when CBS airs the rare "classic" Y&R or B&B ratings aren't there. The networks wouldn't know what to do with one free day during the week, and costs would probably be to much to air a show once a week in daytime.

I think the jury is out on that. CBS has only aired classic episodes on Holidays, which are ALWAYS low rated days to begin with. My mother never watched Y&R on holidays, she was busy cooking... and every time she would say.. "It's a holiday, they never do ANYTHING important on a holiday". soapnet aired classic eps during the graveyard shift, but never in a PRIME slot. Nobdoy has REALLY tried it in a way in which the classic eps have a real chance. And the classic eps would need to be chosen to cooincide with what is going on in the story today, like they did with the Christmas classic eppy with Clint/Marge (and BTW, did Clint not have the cutest ass you've ever seen?) I think as an anniversary special, they should try this next march for the entire month, and see how it goes. And the previous days' eppy could show previews of the classic eppy (but make sure there's a voiceover to tell the viewer that an ALL NEW episode will be back the day after) I really think it could work if done right... I think it's at least wotrh a try. And if it doens't work, go back to the 5 day a week new episode format, no harm, no foul.

Edited April 1, 200916 yr by alphanguy74

...Scha Jani and Charles Guzzi, although they could also be doing Survivor or any other CBS reality crap.

They could be. But I think they are still at Y&R/B&B.