Agendas in Soaps: Name Them!!!!!

[rhinohide]

????????????????????

Not me, right?

[All My Shadows]

Oh hellllll no, you mentioned my name and badmouthed Josh in the same post. Death to you, marceline!

*kidding!*

It's one of the areas B&B needs to really shape up in. Nearly half of its contract characters are also original characters (Stephanie, Eric, Ridge, Brooke, Thorne, Katie, Donna, Felicia). The rest have either been around as long as the originals (Taylor), are the offspring of them (Bridget, Rick, Marcus, Steffy), probably won't be around too long (Owen), or just got lucky (Nick, Jackie, and maybe Pam). That's why the show is so incestuous and also why viewers must endure Brooke/Ridge for the trillionth time. That show's canvas is as small as a single piece of toilet paper.

[rhinohide]

Thank you! It's not about who has an agenda on this board, it's about whose agenda is superior. LOL. Which to me is even a more ridiculous argument.

[miajere]

I had a good laugh.Not at the fans but the entire situation. Sounds exhausting- emotionally, physically for all parties included. It's the reason I can't watch American Idol.

Depends on which side of the undies.

[SFK]

I'm not really sure if this is an "agenda", but it really bugs me when a character takes off, and the show is suddenly revolving around him/her. I don't know what's responsible for this, niche groups of fans who write in/fan reaction online/the dreaded focus group... RH as Todd immediatley comes to mind. What really p's me o is this idea of the brainless idiots in charge who believe whatever they're told by some exec or whoever. It's like in that movie Zoolander, "Roger Howarth... mmm, he's so hot right now..." and suddenly we are bending over backwards to keep him on the show and make the other characters revolve around The Sun ( ). It also makes me wonder if there was a time where people like Susan Lucci or Deirdre Hall would have been persecuted on message boards for bogarding the shows they were on. I mean, I've heard of jealousy within the industry about these ladies, but I'm sure not everyone loved them back in their salad days.

[All My Shadows]

As someone who spent some time reading fan accounts of an ATWT event last week, I just have to say that I flove this post. Thank you for it, SFK!

[miajere]

When networks acknowledge these focus groups and fanbases- Frons, Dena Higley- I find it rather embarrassing. I don't imagine professional chefs making their dinner party taste the food before they serve it. I would hope they could tell when the fish stinks. Not to mention the average restaurant customer doesn't have taste buds for sh**. What self-editing professional relies on these "agendas" to tell a story for the masses. (shakes head) The fact that fanbases and focus groups are leading the professionals in this industry tells me everything I need to know.

[marceline]

It's not even funny how seriously I took you for a second at the first part

But yes, B&B is a perfect example. It's nauseating to see one character who's romanced several members of the same family. The ick factor is too high.

[Vee]

Misogyny on soaps is a lot harder to spot than any old cliche. It has always been my opinion that many women in the industry, especially those who have been around ten years or more, are far more misogynistic than some of the men. Case in point: JFP, and Gloria Monty, who enabled Genie Francis' drug addiction. Also: Dena Higley and some other female HWs writing is truly vile, sick, male-oriented and exploitative. Production personnel, no matter their gender, spend so long in the "jungle" of daytime, objectifying male and female characters in certain ways, working on rape story after rape story, that they all "go native."

[rangethatrover]

JFP LOVES violence against women.

It would not surprise me if JFP hated women- period.

[bandbfan]

We need a new small family or individual characters (like Owen) who can dilute the relationships. All of the Forresters don't have to be around all the time. We could lose a kid or two and gain an "outsider." Rick and Steffy were both off-screen for several years and it was fine. Not saying that those two should be cut, just giving an example.

[SteveFrame]

The biggest problems with 30 minute shows though is the fact that it is so hard to introduce a new family to dilute the relationships and hold onto your viewers. Ryan's Hope had that problem and thus it ended up often retreading relationships between the Ryan's and Coleridges throughout. The few times they tried to introduce a new family like the Kirklands and focusing on Rae fans revolted.

The only 30 minute show that was able to do so and survive was Search For Tomorrow. Over the years SFT pretty much reinvented itself or refocused 4 times. First the show was about the Barrons, but as Joanne moved into a new relationship with Arthur Tate - the Tate family came into play and the Barrons were written out. In the mid-60's, the Tates disappeared and Jo moved into a relationship with Sam Reyonlds and she got a new nemesis and new families came into play. In the early 70's focus shifted again for another successful run as Stephanie came her rival and the Vincente family came into play. The last successful transition came with John & Joyce Corrington who introduced the Sentell and Tourneur families and paired Joanne with the uncle - Martin Tourneur. The show never got incestuous and stayed fresh all those years. The only 2 constants were Jo and Stu.

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Now as to one of the agendas - the feminist agenda. I agree that in today's soaps esp. in recent years there has been a little too much rape and violence against women on certain shows. But I think the agenda takes it too far in trying to wipe it all out. It is a sad fact but violence against women exist and mysoginistic attitudes exist. To have a sense of reality and drama soaps need to represent that, and I think some feminists just want it to all go away. And soaps not to represent it at all. Any story that even has a hint of it is disregarded as wrong or bad just because it has that in it.

Folks writing a story about a community and families without having some violence or mysogyny in it is like writing a relationship between two men and not including sex in it. They just don't exist. Just like it is a reality that not too long after 2 men meet and hookup they are going to get down and dirty - it is also a reality that every day in this world some woman faces some type of mysogyny in her life.

I don't think you need to go overboard like it has been done, but it is a reality and I am not going to write off every story just because it is in there.

I don't have problems with stories like those - at least they are based in some sort of reality. My problem is with all the stories they do now that have no basis in reality at all and I am not talking about the sci fi or supernatural or anything like that. I get so tired of deaths being undone and [!@#$%^&*] like that. Sadly there is no agenda against that.

Right now in the Wish List for 2009 there are several dreams of Dixie suddenly showing up alive. As much as I love Dixie, I am just so tired of things like that. I am so tired of investing my emotions and time into stories and then having it undone. I cried for hours when Jesse Hubbard was killed on AMC. Those were some of the most heartbreaking scenes I ever witnessed in soap operas. And now I feel like that meant absolutely nothing to them.

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Oh and to the comparison of fan agendas and political lobbyists. I never thought of it that way. How wonderful that I feel that lobbyists have ruined politics and sadly agendas are ruining soaps.

[RomeAt50]

I think there is a difference between portraying the mysogyny women face in their lives vs re-enforcing those attitudes. Too many storylines do the latter.

I don't call myself a feminist but I think there probably should be some feminist agenda in daytime. Right now the writing for women on soaps is awful. Most women behave like female stereotypes not complex individuals who have concerns other than getting a man and having babies. There are far more interesting ways to write women. Patrick Irwin wrote a really good post about this trend on his blog.

[marceline]

I don't think feminists want to get rid of all mentions of rape or violence against women. I'm a feminist and my problem with most rape stories is that rape is too often used as a way to redeem or garner sympathy for a so-called bad woman. OLTL did it with Marty, AMC did it with Gloria Marsh and an attempted rape with Kendall, B&B with Brooke. It's the concept of victimizing strong women that I find misogynistic.

You're right that it's a reality that every day in this world some woman faces some type of misogyny in her life. But misogyny and rape aren't the same thing. I would've been thrilled if OLTL had showed Talia dealing with the racism and misogyny that an Arab American female cop would very likely have dealt with. Nora's the DA. You don't think she deals with some sexism. David Hayward's treatment of Angie and Amanda on AMC reeks of misogyny. Not to mention his penchant for drugging women. And I admit I wish AMC could find a better way to make David a villain. OTOH, when Tad's Uncle kidnapped Angie on her wedding day, he specifically told her not to scream. When the elevator doors opens, she screamed like a m*****f*****! Then she fought him all the way up the stairs as he dragged her to the roof. She didn't whine and say "Wait until Jesse gets here!" She fought! You can still have great drama without making the women victims.

We live in a post-Xena and Buffy world. I'm tired of seeing women being rescued by the likes of John McBain and Ryan Lavery. Yes, rescue makes for great romance novels. But how many romance novels are on the NY Times best seller list? Years ago when Natalie and Evangeline were kidnapped by the Killing Club Killer, Natalie was painted as the perfect horror movie victim complete with "Oh I hurt my knee!" while Evangeline looked for a way out. Do you know how much it would've meant to me to see them WORKING TOGETHER to free themselves?

Misogyny on soaps takes many forms (Don't get me started on unplanned pregnancies!) and maybe you see it as the feminist agenda but I see it as a big part of the reason soaps have been bleeding viewers for years.

</rant>

[SteveFrame]

Where it falls into agenda though is when just like the last few weeks I have been reading posts on several boards where they are downgrading ATWT as being a hater of women because they have Lucinda being duped by a younger man because her new husband is hiding the fact from her that she is gay. And they hate the story and want it done away with and have been campaigning with phone calls and letters to get the Brian Wheatley character gone.

See that story is just a fact of life. It happens everyday and to wipe it out because it is mysogynistic to women is just wrong. It is a reality, and it is not like Lucinda doesn't have a history of looking the other way with younger men in the first place.

As I said before I don't like the rape stories - never have. And in recent years they have really been done way too much.

As far as it happening to strong women or weak women - in real life it happens to both - so I have no problem with that.

As far as writing characters strong. Soaps have always had a problem with that. In the 70's all the men were written as if they were castrated and the women constantly deceived them and led them around by their balls. Well in fact it was even longer than that. That is one of hte few things that I have agreed with Hogan Sheffer on and that is how weak the men have been written. I loved when he said he was going to give the men on Days back their penises. The sad thing is in his efforts he further proved his problems with ageism in that he gave the young men back their penises but fully castrated characters like Victor and Stefano due to their ages.

Both men and women have been written wrongly over the years. I would have no problem with an agenda to get all characters back to what they should be instead of it just always being a focus on women.

As to unplanned pregnancies, again that is a fact of life. It happens. I am the father of 3 children who all came about at unplanned times. The first 2 are a living proof that the pill does not work. My wife was on the pill and never missed a dose - yet she got pregnant twice. The 3rd was a mistake of our own. We had quit using the pill and one night we didn't any condoms in the house but it didn't stop us.

And even in this day and age when birth control is almost free and available to teens in our area - teenage pregnancy is still at an all time high around here. And not just teens but it still amazes me the young girls in their 20's and early 30's who are not married and have kids. Some 2 or 3 and all by different daddies.

One of my first cousins had 4 kids and between them they have given him 10 grandkids and only 2 of those grandkids have the same set of parents. The rest have the same of one parent but the other parent is different. For instance his youngest son has 3 kids. He's never been married and all 3 kids are by different women. He is 31 and had the first when he was 25. They are not all just casual women he was with either. He has never been married but has lived with all 3 women from time to time over the years.