Y&R fans, for the most part, hate the show when its bad and like the show when it's decent, for the most part.

[Jeanne Cooper] We're still #1 [/Jeanne Cooper]

That was Malone and Griffith.

AND YOU DIDN'T HATE JESSICA MORRIS! STOP SAYING THAT. LOL.

You are right, I need to stop using the word HATE.

I disliked the character of Jen Rappaport.

ALOT.

Gosh. Malone and Griffith. WHAT HAPPENED? That was so sad to me.

I remember their first week back. The change in the show was immediate. Wasn't it some big snow storm or something? I personally like it when you can tell the change in writers... I was so excited to have them back.

Joey was a priest (granted the actor gave off a HUGE gay vibe to me so I was so excited that Joey was going to be gay- I was wrong loll)

And within 4 weeks or so it was obvious that it was an unmitigated disaster.

That was a weird time.

I stopped watching for 3 years or so at the beginning of John McBain's takeover of the show. John and Evangeline as well as the acting of whatshisname and Goldsberry bored me to tears. I had never been so bored by OLTL. I was surprised how much viewers liked these two characters, even here they used to win all the polls, ect... I found OLTL souless and it had no edge. It became a really bland soap opera. I don't even remember who was writing at that point..Was it Higley?? Didn't Malone create Evangeline during his second go around? Its all a blur to me. Hell, I wasn't even that big of a fan during Tomlin's reign. The show was too light and campy. And I hated that chick who played Jen Rappaport. The show was the Jen Rappaport hour.

I'll admit to being the biggest Evangeline fan- not fanatic , but she bored me to tears on many occassions. There are some scenes I couldn't help but roll my eyes, or worse, woke up hours later with nothing done. As for John McBain...we won't go there. IN the last 5 years I was barely hanging onto anything- not the stories, the characters, not the couplings....Malone was....rusty.

But DH made me feel desperate. A level of masochism I only enjoy when watching Passions. Ron helped me turn the tv off and play with my kids- j/k..I don't have kids. Which is why I don't lay too much blame at his alter, the show just was not well maintained. His beginning tenure was very disturbing because I kept wondering- "why don't I enjoy this show like everyone else?" Which is why I welcome articulate heretics of any kind who can express two sides of a coin. I spent much of this year trying to give the show a chance to dazzle me

Y&R was getting there, but thankfully I didn't have to sit through LML for long.

With regard to your judgement about MA's talent, you're entitled. Again I make a huge distinction between the characters and the actors, and Natalie is my favorite character. But when you make statements like "I hate Melissa Archer" without even qualifying that you just think she's a bad actress, you sound irrational, and it's hard for me to take anything you say after that as intelligent commentary. Plus it also sounds like a committed position, from which you refuse to consider alternative viewpoints, or even allow yourself room to shift your opinion. And nothing you've ever said to me indicates you're willing to consider my opinion and take it under advisement. You just discount it and brush it aside which doesn't promote reasonable discussion.

Interesting.... I do criticize Archer's acting alot. (But honestly I think Alderson's and WIlliamson's perfromances can be just as bad, if not worse. When Alderson's name comes up for emmy consideration I always giggle)

I LOVED Natalie when she first came on. In all honesty, I have not even thought about that storyline in a long time, Archer played a GREAT bitch. When she and Seth? were plotting against Viki I thought she was a great find... And I forgot how much I loved Roxie too back then. I always dig when new characters come to town and are plotting against major characters and it is a mystery- that is classic soap to me. I like suspense more than romance...

But back to the topic at hand, I am trying to think what made me turn on Natalie. She became one note and boring to me. The writers never gave her any DEPTH. I find her whiny and shrill. I never bought her for a second as being Viki's daughter either.

Another mistake was Bree Willamson and Archer combined, as sisters. The dichotomy between Erin Torpey's Jessica and the character of Natalie was GREAT. But Bree has always come across as a complete bitch, even though Jessica is the supposed "heroine".. I think the show should have left Natalie as a hardcore bitch because Archer played that really well. I don't buy her in emotional scenes that require well, emotion. (See the secret room during November sweeps) And I know I am critizing the actress again...

But I had forgotten how much I liked Natalie as a schemer AND I loved her and Roxie as a mother daughter duo.

Now you're just toying with me. Or trying to make it look like you CAN shift your opinion. I'm not falling for it.

I think maybe you fell into the trap that a lot of viewers did. Seems you formed your opinion of Evangeline about the same time you lost your affection for Natalie. Common denominator there is Jawn. Hmmmm!

I disliked the character of Jen Rappaport.

Jen was one of JFP's (and McTavish's) last creations. However, it really was Tomlin who made her a center star of the show and that didn't stop until she was killed off by Higley.

Now you're just toying with me. Or trying to make it look like you CAN shift your opinion. I'm not falling for it.

I think maybe you fell into the trap that a lot of viewers did. Seems you formed your opinion of Evangeline about the same time you lost your affection for Natalie. Common denominator there is Jawn. Hmmmm!

Do you know something, Jawn certainly did not help?

No really, I DID like Natalie, but that was 2001 or something. I have not thought about Gary Tomlin's era in awhile.

Does anybody have Youtube of Archer from then? SHE WAS A GREAT BITCH. For real.

You asked me to actually think. So I thought back to Natalie's beginning... And I honestly liked her then. I had totally forgotten.

Evangeline- Oh man. Every Emmy nomination I was like- YOU HAVE GOTO TO BE KIDDING ME.

But again, I only saw her occasionally on Youtube after I stopped watching.. I just remember OLTL being so bland. No identity at all.

I LOVED Jen Rappaport!

I'm still pissed she was killed off(specifically the way she was killed off. Fuckin Higley )

My thirst for blood is sated. I appreciate the apology. I stand by my opinion that it's futile to debate the show (or any) with someone who hasn't really cared to give it the time of day, save to load up on ammunition - and that isn't just any one poster, actually, but any number of people. As for RC being "lost in the past," yes, it's clear he loves OLTL's past, and yes he does take it too far sometimes - the Lee/Janet connection,

while about to finally come into play onscreen,

was a random add-on that did not serve a purpose during a dismal story. But rarely do I think a story has suffered because of the linkage to the past; when a story is lacking, it's generally because its own current structure (Tarty, etc) is already flawed. And I submit that I find longing for the halcyon days of almost two years ago, under the hellish regime of Dena Higley, to be far more "stuck in the past." Today we have several genuinely popular new couples and storylines, and none of them predate 2007. That's the future. There is no future in an American soap that jettisons its past, its core families and its veteran leads in a quixotic quest for "the New," instead of integrating new people properly. Ellen Wheeler's Guiding Light proves that, that's why it's dying of exposure in Peapack, New Jersey.

Edited January 2, 200916 yr by Vee

Do you know something, Jawn certainly did not help?

No really, I DID like Natalie, but that was 2001 or something. I have not thought about Gary Tomlin's era in awhile.

Does anybody have Youtube of Archer from then? SHE WAS A GREAT BITCH. For real.

You asked me to actually think. So I thought back to Natalie's beginning... And I honestly liked her then. I had totally forgotten.

Evangeline- Oh man. Every Emmy nomination I was like- YOU HAVE GOTO TO BE KIDDING ME.

But again, I only saw her occasionally on Youtube after I stopped watching.. I just remember OLTL being so bland. No identity at all.

But she was incredibly popular- Best Actress many a week during the SOW polls. Was I missing something? That was the big triangle John/Natalie/Evangeline if I remember correctly?

8 pages of NON discussion on the said topic. It's wonderful! Here at SON, we can go off topic but be on topic at the same time! Fuckin' beautiful.

Evangeline was like my worst ironic nightmare: OLTL finally had a black leading lady like I'd always longed for, but she was absolutely fuckin' insufferable and not that good an actress. It was like the end of a Twilight Zone episode for me - "Oh no! Time enough at last to read, but my glasses are broken! Oh no! The aliens are here "to serve man, " but it's a cookbook!"

My thirst for blood is sated.

Well at least for five minutes! lollll

You are right about the couples. For the first time I see what good pairings can do.

Kassie has made whatshisname completely tolerable. There is something very cool about that duo. Maybe its chemistry.

And Jessica and Brody- perfection.

I still don't get Gigi and Rex because Rex has never once been believable as a heterosexual.

I love the characters but could care less about them as a couple.

Viki and Charlie- Love them. But I don't trust that Brian will stay on the show very long.

I DO NOT LIKE Clint and Nora at all.

Marcie and Michael and their brown apartment- I don't think either character will be on more than another year. I think their story has played out.

I know there is a 2009 wish list thread, but if Michael and Marcie are gone from OLTL this year, I'll be very happy.

Evangeline was like my worst ironic nightmare: OLTL finally had a black leading lady like I'd always longed for, but she was absolutely fuckin' insufferable and not that good an actress. It was like the end of a Twilight Zone episode for me - "Oh no! Time enough at last to read, but my glasses are broken! Oh no! The aliens are here "to serve man, " but it's a cookbook!"

YOU NAILED IT VEE! First of all, OLTL should be ashamed of itself for not having a full african american family- I am talking 5-6 major characters.

That was the thing, I just couldn't even look at REG. I'm sorry. She always had this look on her face that I just could not take. Not an ounce of charisma. Very rarely does an actress bore me. The character and the actress combined were like watching paint dry.

You wanna bring Evangeline out of her coma with someone like Victoria Rowell in the role? BRING IT ON. Give her some parents (I think the Fresh Prince of Bel Air lady?) a few secrets, and we are good to go.