You're right that they're not exactly the same thing, although they both were dirty tricks that party bosses approved of in order to gain control of the Senate. One could certainly argue that a vicious character assination of a triple-amputee war hero was worse than a ballot switcheroo. However, it is debateable if Cleland would have won re-election even if those ads handn't been run (given that his voting record was less conservative than most white GA Democrats, combined with the fact that GA was a lot more Republican in 2002 than in 1996). On the other hand, the last minute ballot switch very likely robbed the GOP of a senate seat (although I don't believe for one second that Torricelli would have actually lost by 15 points in such a Democratic state).

One could argue? Are you serious? They are oil and water issues. Unbelievably different. The only thing they have in common is they highlight how terrible American politics is and how little care is paid to issues that affect voters directly and who the best people are for the job.

One could argue? Are you serious? They are oil and water issues. Unbelievably different. The only thing they have in common is they highlight how terrible American politics is and how little care is paid to issues that affect voters directly and who the best people are for the job.

Let's not pretend that Democrats never dished out character assassinations to disabled war heros. Do you remember when John McCain was trashed by the liberals for being a war monger, an old fart, a racist (Congressman John Lewis compared McCain to George Wallace), a homphobe, and a clone of George Bush? I discintly remember back in 2002 that Democrats compared the horrendous treatment Cleland received to that McCain got from Bush two years earlier. (And in 2004, John Kerry himself blasted any hardball criticism of war heros, and then mentioned that McCain--who by the way was his first choice for VP--and Cleland were his friends.) Yet, once the Arizona senator was no longer every liberal's favorite Republican, they attacked him just as viciously as they did "draft dodgers" Bush and Cheney. And what about Bob Dole, who was also ruthlessly attacked for his old age (with liberals laughing their asses off everytime a clip of him falling off that stage was shown), for being a Gingrich clone, for trying to rob seniors of their Social Security and Medicare, and (as Clinton put it) wanting to "build a bridge to the past."

Edited March 16, 201213 yr by Max

Did the Democrats run any ads saying any of this about McCain?

Much of the Obama attack ads against McCain are no longer accessible on YouTube. However, I certainly was able to find instances where Obama's supporters gladly did the dirty work.

Here's one ad questioning his temperment: (The not so subtle message is that McCain is emotionally unstable, stemming back to his days as a POW.)

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Tx6DEBd171s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here's another one directly playing into fear about his age: (The dire warnings in this video never came to fruition.)

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DHvJPGnkQxE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here's an add paid by the S.E.I.U. (a union that is very active in Democratic politics) saying that McCain will be even worse than Bush (whom many liberals honestly believe to be a war criminal):

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Tk92H4M-sOk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Another scare ad tying McCain and Bush at the tip (The ad also ties McCain and Falwell at the hip, and even suggests McCain supports torture; a clear falsehood, given that McCain has always condemned torture):

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-lamm7ilwQg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I don't have any problems with people critizing McCain's views on Iraq (though I am a bit perplexed as to why he received as much heat for his views as Bush did, since liberals intially seemed to be most pissed at the "chicken-hawks" who never served in the military). But if liberals can do that, then conservatives can certainly criticize the homeland security voting record of Cleland (the only horrendous things about that ad were the pictures of Bin Laden, Hussein, and the other terrorists, as well as the suggestion that Cleland didn't care about the country). People just can't go around condemning vicious attacks against some war heros while attacking others.

Edited March 16, 201213 yr by Max

Don't you think that the 6 year difference between these helped open that door in the first place?

Honestly, that is possible. It is just very sad that no politician, party, interest group, or ideology wants to put a stop to this bullshit.

Let's not pretend that Democrats never dished out character assassinations to disabled war heros. Do you remember when John McCain was trashed by the liberals for being a war monger, an old fart, a racist (Congressman John Lewis compared McCain to George Wallace), a homphobe, and a clone of George Bush? I discintly remember back in 2002 that Democrats compared the horrendous treatment Cleland received to that McCain got from Bush two years earlier. (And in 2004, John Kerry himself blasted any hardball criticism of war heros, and then mentioned that McCain--who by the way was his first choice for VP--and Cleland were his friends.) Yet, once the Arizona senator was no longer every liberal's favorite Republican, they attacked him just as viciously as they did "draft dodgers" Bush and Cheney. And what about Bob Dole, who was also ruthlessly attacked for his old age (with liberals laughing their asses off everytime a clip of him falling off that stage was shown), for being a Gingrich clone, for trying to rob seniors of their Social Security and Medicare, and (as Clinton put it) wanting to "build a bridge to the past."

Absolutely, let's not pretend that Democrats haven't got down in the mud with the best of them. But let's not pretend that a character assassination of a triple amputee war hero is in any way comparable to a ballot switcheroo. Not. Comparable. In. Any. Way.

This is the first I have ever heard anyone try to portray Bob Dole as this nice old man, naive in the way of contact sports politics. Bob Dole was a vicious partisan, with the accent on vicious.

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6G9AePwl1AE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I still haven't gotten a response on what the President should o. All I'm hearing is attacks on Democratic figures and once again skipping the real issues facing Americans. Not one idea. Nothing. And that's all they have. calling the POTUS barry is the best they have. the racist garbage and talking about his manhood is the best they have. But...not one single alternative or idea or legislation that can "turn the country around." Gas prices? really. They have nothing else to blast him on.

BTW G. clooney has just been arrested at a protest outside the Sudan Embassy. Why this is news.....just don't know.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/15/racist-anti-obama-sticker_n_1349423.html?ref=fb&ir=Politics&src=sp&comm_ref=false#sb=1205834,b=facebook

Now, who wants to bet me the response to this will be "Well, The Dems do it too!"? That is such a Kindergarden response. Even if yyoun hate the person, at least respect the office. But I guess that just can't happen.

In 2012.

BTW G. clooney has just been arrested at a protest outside the Sudan Embassy. Why this is news.....just don't know.

Because it's Clooney. Fame is Clooney's superpower and he's chosen to use it for causes that matter to him. I think it shows a nice bit of self-awareness. But clearly I have a pro-Clooney bias.

http://www.huffingto...5834,b=facebook

Now, who wants to bet me the response to this will be "Well, The Dems do it too!"? That is such a Kindergarden response. Even if yyoun hate the person, at least respect the office. But I guess that just can't happen.

In 2012.

I like when these people just put their hatred right out there like that. None of this, "It's his policies..." stuff.They hate the black man in the White House. Now we know where everybody stands.

Edited March 16, 201213 yr by marceline

That type of garbage is everywhere. I have gotten racist e-mails from people several times, all under the guise of "humor." Not to mention the constant, sickening attacks against Michelle Obama, all for daring to not be anorexic and white.

What I'd like to know is how many of those same people would have said if you insulted the last president, then you hated America.

Edited March 16, 201213 yr by CarlD2

What I'd like to know is how many of those same people would have said if you insulted the last president, then you hated America.

Carl, that is indeed what they were saying. They were also saying that insulting the man was the equivalent to having no respect for the institution of the presidency (much like Roman now suggests is the case with Obama haters). But, I seem to recall liberals calling the president an election stealer, idiot, deserter, and murderer.

When liberals tore into Bush, conservatives responded by saying that such people were unpatriotic. When conservatives tear into Obama, liberals respond by saying such people are racist (witness Marceline's comment above). It seems as if nobody respects the office when the opposition pary is in control, while everyone demands respect for the office when their own party occupies the White House.

I would hope anyone would call that bumper sticker racist.

In an ideal world, most of the conservative criticism of Obama would not be racially tinged. Unfortunately that has not happened. I don't believe any white President would ever have to spend 4 years with some of the most influential members of today's politics accusing them of not being born in America.

I would hope anyone would call that bumper sticker racist.

I never suggested that it wasn't. But that bumper sticker certainly is not commonplace, and I would bet you anyting that it won't be plastered on the back of 99% of conservatives' cars.

Going back to the importance of needing to have respect for the office (and not launching into personal attacks of the president), I guess I can assume that if Willard gets elected, he won't be demonized as homophobe in chief. Furtermore, if Chris Christie becomes president, there will be zero liberal criticism regarding his weight.

Edited March 16, 201213 yr by Max