The Politics Thread

[Juliajms2]

It looks like black and Jewish women are the ones that stayed firm for Harris. I'm a little surprised that Republicans made so many inroads with Gen Z. I also want to know what happened with NY and New Jersey. 

[janea4old]

@TEdgeofNight

we're all suffering here. no need to cast aspersions on anyone's hopefulness.

put the blame where it belongs, on tr*mp and his ilk

[DRW50]

There's a lot of cultural conservatism in both states. The macho persona forced by Trump and the GOP this year (where women at large seemed shut out with not even a token attempt otherwise - unless you count Kari Lake hovering in from the window) may have also appealed. The odd part is that New York jumped to the right in 2022, even as many states didn't, but this election cycle, they actually gained back three house seats and gained a seat in the state legislature. One of the Congressmen claims the reason he won (he won a special election earlier this year and kept it this week) is because he was willing to say, "biological boys shouldn't be playing in girls' sports." I think anyone who cares about that is already likely voting GOP anyway. 

So much of this election ended up being about denying reality, at least in my case. I kept hoping it would be true, but for a year now I've read tweets and articles about how well the GOP has been doing with Gen Z voters, partly from the guys who are drawn to the bro culture through scum like Andrew Tate or Theo Von, part through apathy, part because they were very young when Trump was in office and don't know just how bad it was and how bad it almost became. I am not sure what Democrats can do to get them back. One thing would be getting more young people who can actually talk with them and not just relying on memes. Nobody was asking for a Biden tiktok. 

I do wonder if some will start to second guess themselves once Gaza stops being their pet cause (sorry to be cynical but it is just a pet cause for many). They got taken for a ride. Even Jill Stein, their queen, was saying the day before the election that she has ties to Israel and doesn't want to see it burn. 

Edited November 7, 2024 by DRW50

[Vee]

Well, what's to be said? Carl was right and I was resoundingly, astonishingly wrong. I am Booboo the Fool, and America is what it has chosen. I sincerely apologize to him and to anyone else here who wants it. 

I am not a rosy-cheeked optimist nor am I a cynic; I'm simply a usually hopeful pragmatist. But what pragmatism tells me now is that once is an aberration, twice is the truth. This is what a majority of the country wants, and that it is going to get so much worse before it gets better, if it gets better. I don't blame Kamala Harris who ran a great campaign, but I do blame many people. It will be a generational wound: The right has created a sophisticated right-wing media ecosystem with the help of a pliant, right-leaning press owned by largely disinterested or amoral oligarchs. And no progressive media comes anywhere close to the trifecta of Musk's Twitter, Zuckerberg's Facebook and the rest of the right wing fever swamp, because Democrats have simply refused to invest in it, instead going hat in hand to CNN or MSNBC or the Times cycle after cycle begging to continue to play by the same old fair play good chum rules from decades ago. We should've invested in an alternative to Fox long ago, something I've said many times. We haven't and it will have to happen now if we any have any hope of recouping. That said, the systemic and structural changes this administration will wreak will likely cripple America as it was for the rest of my life. If we do start to dig out of what they will do to government it will take many years. And I see no sign that the Democratic machine has any kind of plan to combat any of this, or to fight the media war that is extremely necessary in a new way beyond continuing to cozy up to the Beltway press, or do anything but maybe 'run another Midwestern dude they might like next time'.

That right wing messaging system has made the casual sociopathy - and apathy - of the public much more commonplace, and has lazily radicalized a generation of youth. We will be very lucky if our democracy survives this to root it out, or to find some sort of squishy middle to appease the most squeamish enough to make them turn blue. And we can most likely not run another woman for many years, let alone another non-white male. And at that point, with all those caveats as we struggle to play Operation and find the perfect identikit midwestern White Guy candidate to run to coddle enough bored 20-30somethings raised on right wing TikTok (or yes, Latinos or other minorities who magically think Trump meant someone else), I have to ask, what the fúck am I still doing here? 

I have no faith in the country or in a majority of its people to shake this off again any time soon, and no faith they'd stick to it. This shít is heroin to the masses. So my feeling is to just get out. Either out of serious political engagement, out of the country or both. Maybe that will fade, maybe I'll change my mind in a few days or weeks or months. But I can't do this the same way anymore when it simply has not worked. I have friends in the UK and places to go. If it wasn't for my mother, who I am really worried about right now and would be heartbroken if I did go (she's fine, for the record) I would very seriously consider it. I don't know that I can do that to her, or what to do. But whatever I do, for right now I can't do this anymore and stay well. This was already the worst year of my life due to considerable health issues but somehow this election found a way to top that. I have to take care of myself and the people I care for, and that's it. So for now at least, when it comes to politics I'm just out. If this is what America wants it can have it.

As Jerry Springer said: Take care of yourselves, and each other. 

I hope they and voters in Dearborn enjoy the Big Lots formerly known as Gaza next year.

Edited November 7, 2024 by Vee

[Juliajms2]

I'll miss you @Vee. You've kept this thread going for a long time. I'm sorry to hear about your health condition. I hope you decide to come back when/if it feels right.

[Vee]

Well, I'm not dying! Or leaving the forum. We'll always have our soaps. Just dealing with a physical issue that has been pretty taxing and is an ongoing process to recover from, but not life-threatening (AFAIK, anyway). I'm just done with this shít.

[sivad40]

Back during the early 10s, the Democrats were saying that age and demographic shifts were going to naturally favored them. That narrative is dead.

"The electorate is going to become more liberal as old conservatives die off and young liberals move in"

"Demographic shifts are going to make it impossible for Republicans to win overall/win in the Sun Belt without reaching out to minorities"

Edited November 7, 2024 by sivad40

[Taoboi]

Well...I admit that regardless of my current feelings...I still had a bit of hope simply because Vee had not said anything. And our difference of opinions aside, I know I can count on him for an honest opinion over last night and politics in general.

 

So now...yeah I believe. Thank you. 

[Vee]

Believe what? I'm not changing election results.

[Taoboi]

Sometimes I can be a little too optimistic for my own good. Like you said, you are a pragmatist. So I know if you said that it is what it is basically and not some mistake in the voting, then I know it's serious. If that makes sense. 

 

[DRW50]

The one constant in politics, beyond the power of hate and bigotry, is that there are few constants. In 2004 the talk from the media and Karl Rove was that there would be an enduring Republican majority. Most of the people who pushed that line at the time are now exiled from the party and most of what they saw as important values for the party are long demolished.

I do think the Trump coalition is extremely fragile and is more from a million forces together at once through adoration of his toxic, rotting visage. But that doesn't mean 2026 or 2028 will be a beacon of hope. It just means everything is going to spin wildly out of control and the only positive will be if the left manages to stop any of the carnage and find their own identities to connect with the public.

Edited November 7, 2024 by DRW50

[Vee]

There's absolutely no mistake. If it was some mistake Harris would not have conceded. That happened long before I spoke, and the loss happened before even the networks called the election. Your eyes and ears are not lying to you. Common sense.

You are right about 2004. And those people were much more skilled and still lost, Rove's dream never came to pass. But these ideologues are different and more visceral, their patrons are more omnipresent (Musk, Thiel, Zuckerberg) and the information environment is very different and much worse. We will be very, very lucky if this administration is somehow half as incompetent as they were last time, and even then it will likely take a generation to dig the country and its government out of the hole this will leave in. If it doesn't and we somehow retain or regain some semblance of a functioning democracy and non-doomed planet by 2030 or 2040-50, if our system of laws, rights, checks and balances aren't in ashes by then or we don't have a permanently right-wing court, we can call it a miracle. 

I'm not holding my breath. I think it'll take most of the rest of our lives to get a lot of the machinery of government and our laws back to where it was before Trump, if we do. (And the way to start doing it, whenever it happens, is to take back a share of the new media landscape.) I think we can. But I'm done fighting for it today. This is what a majority of people want, and they can have it and lick up the result. Take it all.

Edited November 7, 2024 by Vee

[DramatistDreamer]

Well, I must be honest but as a Black woman, I don’t feel as if there are any allies to be had in this country. I have felt this way for some time, so I feel,angry,but unsurprised. Donald Trump is America, there is no way else to look at it. If this was a referendum on democracy, the majority of adult Americans are not in favor of democracy. It’s as simple as that. 

A select group of Americans staged a coup, and paved the way for a fascist racist sexual predator xenophobe to get back to the presidency. There really are no positives from where I stand.

[Vee]

And older white women moved to Harris. Judging by the numbers it was Gen Z and other minorities (primarily male) who sold us out.

[I Am A Swede]

I don't think the results from this election will ever cease to amaze me. As an outsider I thought that Kamala did a great job under the circumstances. How anyone could choose Trump's hateful, misogynistic and racist message over the message of hope, future and unity that Harris stood for is just mindblowing and so depressing. (Not to mention Trump's obvious and severe physical and mental decline.) My faith in humanity really took a hit and I see a much darker future for all of us now.   

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