October 13-17, 2008

[dragonflies]

I have to agree with Angela. Pratt has too many balls in the air(so to speak) and the show feels overcroweded with storylines, he doesn't seem to know how to balance them all.

Don't get me started on how bad Tracy Thomson is. You can TELL she wrote for GH, she acts like she still is.......

Interesting that people tuned out for the actual tornado episode, I don't see ratings going up that much either, and after this past week, I think they'll drop even lower, this week was THAT bad

Soapsy I so want to marry this

[Kubla Khan]

I'm going to be frank here. Fan bases have become extremely prevalent in the last decade or so, and I agree with the general sentiments expressed in various threads recently that they have been a contributing factor to the downfall of soaps. Fan bases will always be pissed off because they are comprised mostly of whiny little bitches (notice I said most, not all*) who want their couples in eternal, earthly bliss at all times. They lose all sense to look at things with any kind of objectivity or any kind of rational thought about it all, and, most importantly, in the CONTEXT OF THE ACTUAL SHOW. So when the couple actually fights or (GASP!) faces conflict (What? Conflict in a soap opera!), they lose their SH!T! They become so entrenched and engulfed with these fictional characters that many of them seem to lose any connection to reality whatsoever. Don't believe me? Take a stroll down to a "couple fan board" -- most of them are like cults. They praise their couple to the highest of heaven, and any character that stands in their way gets ripped to shreds. They spend their remaining free time writing fanfic and NC17 pornos, making You Tube edits, and trolling other message boards to endlessly and laboriously defend their favorite couple, because they can't stand to live with the fact that their favorite couple is...ever wrong or (gasp!) susceptible to criticism! It's all so terrible and utterly mind-boggling. How can people become so obsessed!? Nope, I ain't ever drinkin' that kool aid!

*I can't go off and lump every "fan forum." One example, I enjoy going to the Tad & Dixie forum (and have even posted there before), and the posters there are sane.

[SteveFrame]

Not Sheffer's writing. did you watch any of his Days - almost the whole time he was there writing the show was boring. And many times even on ATWT it was boring - even though his ATWT was less boring than his Days. The only thing good about Sheffer's Days was the dialogue writing and he had nothing to do with that. His stories were awful - it was only the dialogue writers that made the actaul scenes and episodes work. And it was only after Edward Scott brought in great directors and worked on the production that they were overall good.

So I can definitely believe that if a show is boring Sheffer can have a lot to do with it.

***************************************

As to having too many balls in the air or whatever it was that is the one thing I love. That is what old soaps were about - they never had only 1 or 2 stories running at one time - it was always 5 or 6 going at the same time. Some were short arcs while some drug out longer. They all peaked at different times. Some were A stories and got more air time while some were B stories and got less air time but they all went on at the same time.

I can remember in 1981 for instance they had the Greg & Jenny story story with Liza. Erica was having the affair with Brandon Kingsley. Kent Bogard arrived and stole Erica and took over Brandon's modeling agency. There was the Melanie/Chuck/Carrie triangle. the Carrie/Rick/Betsy/Wally quadrangle with Devon trhown in too. 4 married couples faced big marital woes that year: Tom & Brooke; Ellen & Mark; Benny & Estelle; and Phoebe & Langley. That is when Langley had the affair with Opal. The culmination of the Sybil Thorner murder mystery was going on and Sean was revealed to be teh murderer. Opal worked to mooch off of Joe & Ruth. Daisy Cortlandt was finally discovered to be alive and had been blackmailing Palmer. Palmer had amnesia but finally was able to return to Donna.Cliff and Nina were finally wed and embarked on a new life with his and Sybil's son, Bobby.

That was all going on throughout 1981 and most of it at the same time.

I had to look at old issues of Afternoon TV for the summary of 1981 but most of that I remember. It was a wonderful year and it never felt that everything was too much. You didn't get bored because there was so much going on. And when you look at the year no one was happy that year except for Cliff and Nina finally and Joe & Ruth who had their own turmoil with Opal there. Many of the couples ended up apart that year and some divorced that year or split up and never got back together or not for years later.

[SteveFrame]

Oh BTW I couldn't comment on Friday's show as we had our party tonight and I promised not to watch it until all of us together. We just got through. We all voted Friday's as the best show of the week. There were no special effects on Friday so we couldn't be accused of being blinded by them.

The show was so dramatic and so angst filled. We all voted Zach as one big jerk and we all loved the Jesse, Angie, Frankie scenes as the best from Friday.

It was wonderful was the estimation of all 20 that were here tonight. My "boyfriend" hated soaps until last year when I got him into GH - a show he still watches but I don't. He even said tonight that AMC is great. That is big praise from him as up until last year he was a firm soap hater. He has always felt that were stupid and second class.

[miajere]

I can't believe I laughed so hard- and yet it's all sooo true...

[SteveFrame]

Kubla, I know what you mean about trolling other boards.

There is another board that I post on some and we laugh all the time with at least 3 fan bases. If any of those 3 fan bases have their couples or actors criticized in any way at all - all of a sudden you will have about 20 members either join or pop out of the woodwork. It is like one worker ant goes and finds this piece of food and sends back to the other ants to come. And boy do they all converge and start defending their fave. Because it is a no no to have a critical thought about them at all.

2 of those fan bases are more just one character/actor fan bases than they actually are couple fan bases.

I have seen them even attack in droves professional journalist or critics who say something negative about their favorite.

It is so ridiculous.

[MarkH]

As a long-time Y&R devotee, I don't find it at all boring.

One my concerns is that the "stunt" mentality on most soaps has now infected all shows and all ratings. So, because Y&R isn't doing a huge stunt in October...ratings fall. That is NOT the way to maintain a show. That doesn't lead to any kind of narrative with integrity. "Sudden Impact" was a stunt (a good one)...and I wouldn't want to see one of those every week. I loved this week's small Monday cliffhanger---Victor demanding to speak to Heather on the phone with the line: "Let me speak to that ambitious young district attorney..."

Still, miajere has hit the nail on the head. Y&R is doing EVERYTHING it can to make itself available: hulu, fancast, msn video, youtube, Soapnet, cbs. There is no excuse for lapsed viewership in terms of AVAILABILITY. So if the stories are strong (I think they are), ratings should be strong. Low ratings, I think, MUST be laid at the feet of no promotion.

CBS _must_ invest in REGULAR and frequent ads on other networks, and even on CBS in primetime/latenight/early morning. They MUST.

In typing this, and thinking of all the other ways that people can see Y&R, I really wonder if those alternative methods are putting a dent in the broadcast ratings. Just ONCE I'd like to see a combined rating.

[Canfan]

I tuned back into AMC for the tornado this week and did'nt see anything on screen that would draw me back in. I tune in and out of the show on a regular basis hoping for a reason to come back but so far nothing. Its not even the plots really its the characters. I love self-destructive scheming Kendall not wimpy whiny Kendall which is what I've seen for the last two years. What happened to fun-loving Tad? Everytime I see him on screen he looks depressed or he's bitching at someone. The Madden storyline completely destroyed him for me and he's never come back. I like Amanda but she just seems to be used as sex toy for whatever guy is bored at the moment. Why Aidan is still on is beyond me. Ryan has been a self-righteous jerk since he's return five years ago and I used to love him when he was a con. They write in villians I like and then completely take them over the top leaving no option but to kill them or change their personalities completely.

The plots are poor too. This Zach-Bianca baby storyline could have worked IMO if Miranda had been sick and needed a sibling. I kind of redux of the Sean-Molly storyline that I loved at the time. Instead its like Pratt went for shock over human interest and its not working for me. I really wish soaps would plot out their storylines well in advance so we could look back and say oh yeah, I see now. But I guess with all the headwriting changes maybe that is too much to ask for.

Babe's death could have been more dramatic too if they set her up as a possible donor for someone like Colby or even Amanda. It would have been alot better than that crappy Laura-Gillian donor storyline that I loathed. It also would have left David with a more valid reason for holding a vendetta against the Chandler family and a good reason for possibly being drawn towards the recipient. These are just off the top of my head but its the kind of storyline I personally would tune in for. And yes there are too many children on this show and too much talk of sperm!

I just feel like AMC has been all plot points since about 2005. They've made the characters adjust to the plot and not the other way around. I also hate the fact that there has been no payoff for any of these plots. I want a little bit of self-awareness from these people. Greenlee showed some after taking Spike but it was too brief for me.

I am not a shipper of any couple currently on the show so I am not mad about any storylines in that regard. I just don't recognize any of my old faves and so have no desire to watch these people I don't understand. The only character who appears to remain consistant throughout all of these changes is Adam, which is why I guess I still enjoy watching him. I could go on but that would take an entire page

[cct]

That would be nice, Mark, but I think it may be nextaimpossible.

I think if soaps or any other television went over to Internet, I think we'd have a more reliable tracking system than Nielsen. After all, many sites count the number of hits or downloads, a la YouTube. Then everyone's vote would count and not just if you are a Nielsen family. I wonder if we'd see much difference.

[Kubla Khan]

I'm glad they didn't go the route of an organ transplant. I think David's vendetta right now makes enough sense. Adam is indirectly responsible for Babe's death by playing on his greed and anger and forcing Babe and JR back to Pine Valley. If Colby would've gotten an organ from her, why would David have any reason to angry? He's a cardiologist who has performed heart transplants before, he understands the medical value and worth behind such operations. I'm not sure why he would have anger about that.

I have to say "let's make a baby to save the other one" is a bit on the cliched side too.

Besides, organ transplants on soaps have delved into "overdone" and "unrealistic" territory. Someone is terminally ill but is saved by someone who tragically dies at the very last possible minute. Blech. We saw it with Gillian and Laura and we don't need to see it again. Babe's death is already plenty dramatic -- she's been a lead character on this show for five years, her death is going to rock the Chandler and Martins, and she's leaving Little A motherless. I think the death has been handled well so far, and hopefully Pratt will focus on the emotional ramifications from the fallout. What does this do for JR and Adam's relationship? JR is going to hit the bottle again. How are Tad, Krystal, Adam, and Colby going to help him? It's going to be fun to see.

This is McTavish's trademark. Pratt seems to be different. The prime example is Annie. MCE seemed to be one breath away from being fired, but instantly Pratt turned Annie around and made her likable and sympathetic, despite the things she's done. He hasn't glossed over what she has done, but has instead painted her as pathetic and desperate rather than evil. She didn't get an InstaTumor and be completely washed of her sins. And since Pratt took over, MCE and Annie have been riveting to watch -- one of my favorite characters/actresses right now. When she's on screen it reminds me of how I used to feel around 2000-2002 when Greenlee was on the screen -- you knew it was going to be an interesting scene. How ironic considering that MCE was often called a poor man's Greenlee when she first debuted.

Overall, I think Pratt is doing a good job at the show. He's cleaned up a lot of messes. He's starting some interesting stories. Missteps have been made, but I never expected Pratt, or any writer, not to make any. That's unrealistic. But he's made AMC fun and exciting for the first time in years, and he's only been here for two months. There's still a lot of work to be done, and I'm eager to see what he does with the show post-tornado, as I feel the tornado was used as an official starting point of his big changes and stories. He instantly got rid the two biggest McTavish abominations ever: Josh and Babe, so I can't hate on him...like ever (LOL!) So we'll see where he goes from here. But I remember when Pratt took over at AMC, fans said that the show would be nothing but shallow, campy Melrose Place bedhopping antics. Pratt has really impressed me by avoiding that, and drawing upon the essence and whole cast of AMC to give us some really heartfelt and fantastic scenes since he's taken over.

[Ann_SS]

Hilarious. I had a good laugh. You have captured my annoyance with fanbases. It is the writers' catering to those fans that finally drove me away from the soaps. I finished with ATWT over the Jack and Carly obsession which is even worse than the pathetic Noah/Luke and Paul/Meg ones. Ick. I'm convinced that all their writing campaigns, attacks and ranting have led writers' to make terrible decisions that have ruined soaps and helped to drive tons of fans away. After nothing new can happen, characters can't go in new directions or have different relationships because they have to be together FOREVAH.

[marceline]

Unfortunately, its not just soaps. As anyone who's witnessed Lost's Jake/Skate wars or House's Huddy/Hameron pimping can tell you "shipping" is rampant all over primetime and I think its killing a lot of shows. There's a whole generation of TV viewer who the very moment they watch to actors/characters interact in a scene, immediately demand a hookup.

That said, soaps are much worse off because as the audience dwindles the people left watching start fighting over couples like hyenas over a carcass. There's fewer and fewer people in the middle. Everybody's either a Blood or a Crip. Then throw in a higher-up like Frons, who basically manages by fanbase and you've got the recipe for a real mess.

It would be interesting if Pratt is using this baby story to dismantle the Zendall fanbase. It's what Carlivati did to the TnB fanbase whether he meant to or not.

[SteveFrame]

yeah but how often have Internet ratings and polls been fixed by fan bases. I mean when you have programmers who can write programs to instantly vote in Big Brother polls and the like.

I don't see how we would have an accurate vote at all unless they set it up some way for one IP to be able to be counted once. But then you have 5 people that live in some houses and may watch at different times so they wouldn't be counted if they watched using the same IP connection.

There is no full proof rating system. those You Tube numbers can't even be considered accurate. I have seen fan bases who say well such and such video has been viewed more than such and such over at You Tube. that means our couple is the most popular. what they failed to mention is that they posted on their couple's site for everyone to go over there and watch it. And some of them opened it - viewed part - closed out - and then opened it up again - over and over.

As far as combined numbers I don't think we will get those any time soon until advertisers are willing to accept other ratings more in basing their ad dollars on.

Plus Nielsen right now charges so much for ratings number access to cover the costs of their employees and equipment - plus to pay the houses that are Nielsen households. It is not much but you do get a check every 3 months when you are a Nielsen household. Our's averaged about 50 to 60 dollars every 3 months. They don't get much money at all for covering the soaps at all.

You notice that not many sites pay for ratings access at all or report the soap opera ratings. The reason it is that it costs a great deal to get access to them. My rep when I checked into getting access for my site said that they only had about 40 clients in teh whole United States who pay for ratings numbers for daytime shows. I know that SOW and SOD are 2 of them and they only pay for the live ratings and that is all they report.

I saw we will get combined ratings for all the primetime shows and stuff before we ever get them for daytime. The money just isn't there.

[cct]

Steve, what if it were a downloading system. You would download it once and then that would "count." Then people would have it on their computer already for watching multiple times and that would prevent all the multiplicity (sic) that fanbases can sabotage "voting" with. I'm sure the technology is there to do this, and it may keep Nielsen workers employed. Count downloads, not hits.

The problem is fragmenting. Now I can watch Live, I can watch DVR, I can watch online, I can watch by iPod download, etc. That's a lot of different ways of tracking. For example, I was just reading that Heroes, which has taken a huge tumble in the live ratings this year has actually increased its DVR viewing by quite a bit. This tells me that the show isn't losing as much audience as thought. It's just that the audience who watches the show is watching something else at that time. (Tough time slot with Heroes, DWTS, 2 1/2 Men, and Prison Break on the four majors, Gossip Girl on the CW, and who knows what else on cable channels)

[alwaysAMC]

I LOVE this post.

And I haven't seen a fan base so bad as the Zendall group. They are almost singlehandedly destroying this show and its reputation just for their narrowmindedness and vocal outcries.