42 minutes ago, te. said:

Of course, it ended up almost getting them cancelled, so they luckily threw caution to the wind in season four since they had nothing to lose.

I agree. 

David Jacobs wanted KL to be an exploration of how the laid-back, anything-goes lifestyle of the late 1970's had impacted the institution of marriage - a time when the notion of marital fidelity was being questioned and redefined - but I think he learned along the way that what might have made for an interesting made-for-TV movie or miniseries might have been harder to sustain as a weekly series, especially when the attitude that married people could have sexual relationships outside of marriage without consequences guarantees that you'll likely end up with domestic drama minus the drama.

Moreover, even with all the taboos being broken, network television remained very conservative, so unless CBS was going to allow Jacobs to explore issues like mate-swapping, for example, in ways that weren't juvenile or exploitative, there's no way KL, or Jacobs' original vision for it, would have lasted beyond a season or two.  Network TV wasn't ready in 1979 for a series that was that honest about marriage, nor would it be ready 'til eight years later, when "thirtysomething" premiered on ABC.

 

49 minutes ago, Chris B said:

Season 3 was a nice balancing act of the old format and bringing more soapy/continuing themes into the show. They also had to deal with Karen's grief over Sid. Giving her a season to deal with that only made season 4 and Mack's arrival stronger.

Those final episodes of season 3 make it all worth it. The Valene/Gary/Abby developments that season were absolutely delicious. 

ICAM.  I've always looked at S3 as a transitional season.  Wading through the non-continuing elements can be a chore, but it was necessary in terms of laying the groundwork for what KL would become. 

The first part of S4 feels like "old" KL to me as well, just with drama that's higher-pitched, thanks to the Gary/Val/Abby triangle.  KL as we all know and love it doesn't really begin until the moment Ciji Dunne's lifeless body washes up on the shore.  As I've said before, that's the moment when KL as it was "dies" and KL as it is remembered is born.

Karen being some kind of investigator for Valene's babies is an interesting turn of events.

3 hours ago, Chris B said:

Season 3 was a nice balancing act of the old format and bringing more soapy/continuing themes into the show. They also had to deal with Karen's grief over Sid. Giving her a season to deal with that only made season 4 and Mack's arrival stronger.

Those final episodes of season 3 make it all worth it. The Valene/Gary/Abby developments that season were absolutely delicious. 

Oh yes, I did forget to mention that this is the best depiction of grief/recovery after the death of a spouse that I’ve seen. Throughout the entire season, I was never surprised when we went back down the road of Sid’s death (for lack of a better phrase) because there was always that undercurrent of loss in Karen and the kids. I watched “Letting Go” yesterday, and the thought occurred to me that Mack’s arrival and romance with Karen would not feel rushed at all since we’d gone on this continuing journey with her.

In the final episodes of the sixth season; will then begin the seventh on Thursday.

2 hours ago, All My Shadows said:

I watched “Letting Go” yesterday, and the thought occurred to me that Mack’s arrival and romance with Karen would not feel rushed at all since we’d gone on this continuing journey with her.

I agree.  Jacobs and his team were smart not to rush Karen into another relationship, or rush to replace Don Murray as the show's de-facto patriarch.  (Contrast their approach with that of "Eight is Enough".  On that show, Joan Bradford dies between the first and second seasons (on account of Diana Hyland's real-life passing, which had occurred before the end of S1, IIRC) and Tom spends maybe a half-dozen episodes as a widower before he and Abby, who (IIRC) was introduced in the first or second episode of S2, get hitched.  IMO, that was entirely too soon.)

4 hours ago, Liberty City said:

Karen being some kind of investigator for Valene's babies is an interesting turn of events.

LOL!!

It made sense for Karen (and Mack) to investigate, though, since they were the show's tentpole couple.  It's just unfortunate that that has to happen AFTER Karen's health concerns and surgery are dealt with.  In fact, it's probably the only part of that season that I don't like, because her health crisis feels like something the show contrived in order to keep Karen from putting the pieces of Betsy and Bobby's kidnapping together sooner.  IOW, it's plot-driven, not character-driven, which I HATE.

At the very least, I would have had Karen investigating the kidnappings while still grappling with the after-effects of the shooting from the previous season's cliffhanger.  Imagine: Karen knows there's a good chance she'll die from those bullet fragments or whatever, or at least she'll become paralyzed for life.  Yet, she keeps ignoring the signs, along with Mack's pleading, because finding Val's babies are much more important to her at that point than even her own health.

I hate to spam post but guys I did NOT expect “Acts of Love” to go so hard! I figured after all the excitement of “Night,” we’d just get the silly plot of Val waiting tables, but what an incredible follow-up that delivers on the Gary/Abby tension! The Val side of the story really is kinda dumb, but Sonny Shroyer’s character did what he needed to do (and was quite sexy in the process). And now “China Dolls” is next #eek

1 hour ago, Khan said:

It made sense for Karen (and Mack) to investigate, though, since they were the show's tentpole couple.  It's just unfortunate that that has to happen AFTER Karen's health concerns and surgery are dealt with.  In fact, it's probably the only part of that season that I don't like, because her health crisis feels like something the show contrived in order to keep Karen from putting the pieces of Betsy and Bobby's kidnapping together sooner.  IOW, it's plot-driven, not character-driven, which I HATE.

It did feel a bit rushed, Karen's health, in exchange for the storyline of finding the twins. But, in true soap opera fashion, I am able to overlook it. I'm now at the finale.

Wow... seeing Abby go to collect Valene felt very season two. I kind of like it.

In season 3, even when it was a self contained episode...the other stories were still simmering in the background.

Season 5 and 6 are flawless seasons...that season 7 and 8 are let downs even though there were positives to enjoy in those seasons.

11 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

that season 7 and 8 are let downs even though there were positives to enjoy in those seasons.

I think there were positives to every season of KL (including S13, lol).  Seasons 4-6, however, are probably when KL was at its' most consistent, and most consistently entertaining.  Later seasons had their moments, too, but their highs never matched those achieved by Peter Dunne and his team.

13 hours ago, Liberty City said:

It did feel a bit rushed, Karen's health, in exchange for the storyline of finding the twins. But, in true soap opera fashion, I am able to overlook it.

I'm able to overlook it as well.  Just as I was able to overlook the whole "Verna Ellers" thing, because, even though it looks like another stall for time on its' surface, it's actually executed quite well, and provides enough focus on Val's psychology to explain why, after everything she had endured, she simply created a whole new identity for herself.

On 12/5/2024 at 1:02 PM, titan1978 said:

Those last couple of years of Knots also still feel contemporary. It never feels dated to the era it was airing in. I think both Dynasty and Dallas feel incredibly dated by the late 1980’s compared to their primetime peers airing at the same time. Where Knots revitalizes around Paige/Sumner Group and feels so much fresher than either of the other ones.

I would agree up to the last two seasons. Those start to feel very dated to me. It hits right when Karen accidentally kills the paintballer and his Grapes of Wrath-esque family descend. Then Tidal Energy...

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

I would agree up to the last two seasons. Those start to feel very dated to me. It hits right when Karen accidentally kills the paintballer and his Grapes of Wrath-esque family descend. Then Tidal Energy...

I think it was a combination of two things: not keeping up with the times, and not having a showrunner who knew KL.  I do believe things improved when Ann Marcus returned, but I also agree that KL would have needed to evolve once more - perhaps, do away with the business storylines and become more like "Sisters" or "thirtysomething" - if it had had any hopes of surviving past 1993.

Edited December 11, 20241 yr by Khan

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

I would agree up to the last two seasons. Those start to feel very dated to me. It hits right when Karen accidentally kills the paintballer and his Grapes of Wrath-esque family descend. Then Tidal Energy...

The stories maybe. But the look of the show, shooting style, the colors, hair and clothes always feel contemporary to the times they are airing, unlike the fashion of Dynasty over its last couple of seasons which seems frozen in the mid 80’s. Dallas, to me, never really has a set visual identity unlike the several that Knots has over the years.

7 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

Dallas, to me, never really has a set visual identity unlike the several that Knots has over the years.

Which is kind of a shame, because, whenever I think of DALLAS, I think of 1950's melodramas like "Giant," or "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof," or "Written on the Wind"; just as I felt DYNASTY should have taken inspiration from movies like "Magnificent Obsession" or "Peyton Place."

Edited December 11, 20241 yr by Khan