Members Jess Posted September 10, 2008 Members Share Posted September 10, 2008 A good place for him to start would be a little bit of humility. Him telling viewers what they should like or dislike is not hyping his story. What he said was that he didn't understand why viewers were unhappy. He in effect said too bad you don't like it. It's Ron joining the ranks of Brian Frons in arguing that he must educate viewers on what is good and bad in storytelling. Perhaps he should allow viewers to educate him every now and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sylph Posted September 10, 2008 Members Share Posted September 10, 2008 So... How exactly did you prove Jack and me wrong? And how does your post tie into our posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JackPeyton Posted September 10, 2008 Members Share Posted September 10, 2008 The camp and all the awfulness is totally RC. Its obvious. He pimped it out, its what he wanted. Fronz can be blamed for a lot.. but this? Well he egst blame for letting it go on but... And where did that demo get Passions? the ax. twice in fact. so... Guza's vision is murder murder murder. and fans hate iut.. but at least he has one? LML has a vision to.. to hack away at a show everyw ay possable... but it was good because she had a vision? Having a vision is nice. However having a bad vision that turns off a lot of fans is not a good thing. I agree, however what soap is in the best condition is all up to each person watching. But then againj just look how fast the OLTL threads went from 20+ pages to... 2. That says a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MTSRocks Posted September 10, 2008 Members Share Posted September 10, 2008 It's not only RC. His producers, writers, directors, and actors are doing a disservice as well. Even when OLTL was good, rarely did I ever find a connection between the writing and the acting (going all the way back to Nash's hollow death). Everybody spouts there lines, but there is no underlying emotion behind the performances that make me feel for the characters, or the overall story. However, that is mostly the younger crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted September 10, 2008 Members Share Posted September 10, 2008 Funny how I never heard any of you say these things when the show was being hailed regularly. No, it's all Monday morning quarterbacking. As far as I was concerned, the vision and long-term planning for all the characters was there on the screen. There is no way things in November, January, May could've played out as they did without the intricate planning that set each story up over months of work. Now, things are more of a jumble and less organized, but I can't find fault with much of what was done until July. Which was...two months ago. So you'll forgive me if I don't see it as hard evidence of anything. It's easy to say "oh, I was never affected by Viki and Charlie, or Nash's death, or Natalie and Jared or Marcie and Tommy, blah blah blah"...well, that's very nice for you. But if you look at a huge amount of fans online, they were. Do you discount them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhinohide Posted September 10, 2008 Members Share Posted September 10, 2008 Of course he's supposed to promote his stories and present them as "good". My point is he's not producing art, for art's sake, or for the artist's sake. He's producing a product to be "sold" commercially! He's responsible for producing commercial success. I may have missed where people are roasting him for what he said about his stories, all I've seen is that some aren't pleased with what he's writing! For me, it's a mixed bag. More bad than good right now, and although I respect that he's taken risks, I am just not enjoying the show overall right now. I seem improvement and hope he gets back on tract -- which of course means I hope he starts writing for ME (as in rhinohide, NOT Michael Easton) again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted September 10, 2008 Members Share Posted September 10, 2008 And while that is an absolutely beautiful picture of Melissa Archer (why doesn't she look like that all the time?), I must say I never want to see Easton again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhinohide Posted September 10, 2008 Members Share Posted September 10, 2008 I don't see him being arrogant or professing not to care what the viewers think. Saying you don't understand somebody's POV is an admission of your own shortcomings IMO. And if you don't understand what the problem is, you can't take corrective action so you have little choice but to forge ahead. That's not an indication that he doesn't care what the audience thinks/wants, he just doesn't have an alternative. It may be a disconnect, but it's not deliberate disregard or thoughtless inconsideration. Furthermore, most posters haven't come out and said "I thought Ron was so good, now I realize I was wrong." We're mostly talking about how much we enjoyed his writing up to a point and we still think that was good and he did a great job, but something changed and we're no longer enjoying his stories the way we did at first. We're all just trying to figure out what changed and why and if there is any indication that the stories are turning in a way that will make us enjoy the show again the way we were. I don't know about everybody else, but I see signs of improvement, so I still have hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhinohide Posted September 10, 2008 Members Share Posted September 10, 2008 LOL! I have no idea. Each time I see her in person I am amazed anew at how stunningly beautiful she is. The camera simply does not do her justice. As for Easton, I adore him and wish him success beyond his wildest dreams in his writing career, so that he may devote himself completely to his first love of writing. You have my word, I will spare you his image in MY avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MichaelGL Posted September 10, 2008 Members Share Posted September 10, 2008 Wow, OMG OLTL has gone campy! Someone cancel the show already! Ron Carlivati has destroyed it with his attempt to balance the show with humor and psychological drama. He's such a hack for that. Camp is horrible, it’s worst than... ...having a woman in her 50, who suffered from menopause, become pregnant because cancer drugs made her fertile... ….or getting rid of all the sets on your show and trying to be like The Hills. ….making your anniversary show an episode of “This Old House” ...centering the show around one character, and that one character being a contract killer ...destroying each and every character on the show ...centering a show around four people ...glorifying the mob Like oh my gawd people OLTL is so horrible right now! . . . . . At least OLTL is the closest thing we have right now that resembles a soap next to Y&R, and a very damn good one at that IMO. So damn Ron for bringing back the OLTL we know and many have loved over the years. Damn him! Pssh wake me up Viki becomes pregnant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JackPeyton Posted September 10, 2008 Members Share Posted September 10, 2008 Actually, various people did. No i do not discount them. But this debate isnt about WAS he at one time good. Is he NOW? Just going off the discussion threads i would say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhinohide Posted September 10, 2008 Members Share Posted September 10, 2008 LOL! I don't know if anyone is arguing that it's the worst soap on screen now. I am not paying that much attention. But it could be like comparing turnip greens to brussel sprouts (neither is my favorite) vs. comparing chocolate to icecream. If you don't like any of your choices saying one is better than the other isn't necessarily affirmation of how good it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members quartermainefan Posted September 10, 2008 Members Share Posted September 10, 2008 All he can do to satisfy that job requirement is write stories he thinks are good and hope he finds an audience. If he doesn't, the show should replace him. The other way to approach the job would be to do the ABC approach of focus group, let the audience tell you in advance who and what they want to see, and basically write the story the audience plotted out for you. In my opinion this always makes for craptacular soaps. While everyone and their sister might have brilliant ideas for Marcie and Nigel on the run, RC may just not see the potential there and only do a fair to middling attempt trying to appease people with something he has no affinity for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhinohide Posted September 10, 2008 Members Share Posted September 10, 2008 I don't think we're really disagreeing. Of course he must write what he believes are good stories. Give his best effort based upon his beliefs about what the audience will enjoy. What he can't do is say "I personally would like to see "this" so I am going to write it, and hope that the audience enjoys it." He can't write specifically what pleases him from his own subjective viewpoint. OLTL is not a movie or a play that will succeed or fail based on a limited run. THIS IS OUR SOAP. It's remained our soap through multiple head writers, executive producers, characters that have come and gone and returned again. We've always been here and they have to write the show to please us with all our divergent perspectives and demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EricMontreal22 Posted September 10, 2008 Members Share Posted September 10, 2008 I agree with nearly everything else you've said in this thread, but... People surely did--I know cuz it drove me crazy (ie as soon as people praise this new HW people come in "Give him another 6 months to actually prove something" bla bla) Even some of the current reaction strikes me from *some* as a bit of a "told you so" MichaelGL your post made me laugh-and is true. To an extent. I still think fans have every right to complain abotu a show turning exceedingly campy when what they enjoyed about it a few months ago was lack of camp. Yes soaps always have outrageous plot twists and some are awful, and being primarily campy may seem a small offence--and one I don't mind all that much--but I can see why others do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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