AMC: Lorraine and Wisner

[Jody]

Hey Steve Frame. First of All, Hill Street Blues was on in the 80's and Not the 70's. One way that I know this is that Either the Sargent Died Before My Father did OR My Father Died Before the Sargent Did. My Father Died in December 29 1983. Also, I think that You are Wrong about the Daytime Soaps Bringing in More Money for the Networks than Prime Time. I think that the Networks Don't Care about Daytime and Shows like Desperate Housewives and Lost and Grey's Anatomy and Even Friends when it was on Bring in More Money. That's why the Actors Get Such Huge Salaries and They Keep Bringing Back Shows like Friends and ER and X Files and Even The Sopranos because They Bring in So Much Money. Even Dallas has An Orchestra and Great Openings and Some of the Top Actors because that is in Prime Time. Jody

[EricMontreal22]

HillStreet Blues was 80s, but, especially in the 70s, because soaps were so cheap to make they definetly did give a MUCH higher return on their investment than primetime did. This is mentioned in many books.

[Jody]

Hey Steve Frame. Erica Did Not Move to New York. Erica has Always been the Same. I think Most People thought the 80's were the Best Decade on All My Children. You had I think the Most Couples with Cliff and Nina, Jenny and Greg, Angie and Jesse, Erica and Jeremy, Erica and Jack and then there was the Comedy Between Opal and Langley and Phoebe with Myrtle in there. The School Kids were the Best School Kids with the School Kids in the 90's or 2000 with Anita and Bobby and the Rest of them A Close Second. Also, All My Children is not the Only Soap with Super Couples. There is Todd and Blair on One Life and Victor and Nikki on Young And Restless and Luke and Laura and Sonny and Carly and Bo and Hope on Days Of Our Lives. Jody

[Pine Charles]

Erica did move to NYC when she became a supermodel; she had a penthouse there.

But it was close to Pine Valley, so she came back a lot.

If anyone wants to see clips from this era, try the DELICIOUS 'Erica Fest' (from 1983) posted on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTjoy5_tNts

[SteveFrame]

Sorry about the bad wording that indicated Hill Street Blues was in the 70's. That was supposed to read the 70's and 80's because they were the same.

this is a direct quote from an article in a Daytime TV yearbook:

"Soaps are a networks bread and butter, a constant warfare is being waged among th three major networks to gain control over the daytime airwaves. One of the reasons for these corporate struggles is the fact that many primetime shows lose money for their networks, who need the daytime profits to finance teh more expensive nighttime series. For example, an evening showon prime time may cost a network around $250,000 to produce, but may only bring ad revenues of a platry $200,000. In sharp contrast, an average hour long soap only costs a measly $170,000 for an entire week of 5 episodes, but the daily advertising revenues will exceed $120,000 o $600,000 a week. This is a clear 250% profit, which is nothing to sneeze at."

Here are some others about costs of soaps in the 70's & 80's:

Direct quote from Afternoon TV in an article about Y&R:

In its first year Y&R hit a 7.9 in the 18-34 women's demo which equalled about 5,700,000 households at the time. IT was not even #1 in that demo at the time. By 1984 it had risen to #1 in that demo and had the following breakdown in audience members: 72% adult women; 14% adult men; 6% teenagers; and 8% children under 12.

From the same magazine about Days:

"In 1975, its daily advertising revenues exceeded the $100,000 mark, and yet it only cost around $150,000 a week to produce."

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Soap operas were network's bread and butter then. They made a lot of money for the networks. When you are making 250%, you hate to lose it and it helps the network out in a lot of other areas.

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As to Erica and as already posted, she bought a penthouse there and did move. She was in New York more than she was in Pine Valley. At first even the Kingsley's and all that action took place in New York and Erica's story was totally isolated from the rest of All My Children. They did finally tie the Kingsley's to Pine Valley some and had them move there but all of Erica's story for at least 3 years seemed isolated from the rest of the show.

It was not until 1983 when Adam came on that Erica finally didn't jaunt off to New York all the time and her story was more tied again to Pine Valley alone. then it got really bad again when Mike died and they paired her with Jeremy Hunter. Erica's story really felt isolated then as it was months that she was in Canada interacting only with Jeremy, Natalie and Alexander.

And I am sorry Erica is not the same as she was. She forever changed when she became a successful model. Erica had a reason in the 70's to be manipulative. She was trying to fulfill her dreams. She wanted stardom. She wanted wealth. She finally got it and it forever changed her character. No longer was that part of her motivation that made her different than all the other villianesses out there. She no longer had that part that made you feel for her. It was a change in her character.

As to the other things attributed to what I said. I never said that AMC was the only show with super couples. I said that AMC was copying the other shows. I never said they invented it or they were the only ones.

Also I never said that AMC was bad in the 80's. I loved AMC in the 80's, but it did change. The 80's and the 70's are my two favorite eras of AMC but even I who watched AMC from January 1970 to Feb 2006 (36 years) know taht it changed in the 80's. It did not change as much as OLTL and GH and other shows did, but it too got caught up in the new trends taht were hitting daytime.

I am one that can still love a show but admit it's faults. I am not one of these fans who looks beyond and doesn't see the problems. I see them, can acknowledge them and still love the show.

Many of my favorite couples are from the 80's - Cliff & Nina especially. But I also loved Peter Bergman and I hated that AMC lost him as Cliff but because Taylor Miller didn't want to stay with the show and fans could not accept him with anyone else - as hard as AMC tried - we got robbed of a great actor and a great character. Same with Greg Nelson. AMC tried to let him move on just like Jeff did in the 70's; just like Tara did; and just like others did in the 70's. But the 80's is when that trend hit that couples were no longer just couples - they were destined to be together and no alternatives were acceptable.

I love Agnes Nixon but I will always hold that she and the writers in the 80's made a mistake by changing the dynamics of AMC and Pine Valley by making Erica into the bigger than life character she became, and as Eric pointed out even changing the face of Pine Valley by adding the big conglomerates and all and making it so close to New York as they did.

[cct]

AS someone who has only been watching since 1990:

For me, Erica Kane has always been an island. Sure there are times when she is more integrated with the rest of the PV crowd, but for the most part, her storylines exist on almost a separate show at times. Witness: Erica in Budapest (Destiny on the Danube), Erica in Prison, the whole time she was with Chris Stamp (in fact, I wonder if they didn't make Ryan Chris's son just to give them someone else to interact with). For me, it was always a treat when Erica showed up at one of the grand Pine Valley parties (whatever happened to those??) and mixed it up with the hoi polloi and traded a few barbs with Brooke. Do I like a more integrated Erica? Sure. It just doesn't happen often. (Maybe to accomodate all of Ms. Lucci's breaks and TV movies/QVC appearances back in the day).

That said, I do think it was probably more endearing before the modeling days to have her strive to become somebody. Now, it seems self-centered and manipulative. However, it's hard to make a tiger change her stripes, however much she may need to shed them.

AS for supercouples, I think that is Tad's problem right now. No one will let him be with anyone besides Dixie. Not that I think he needs to be with Krystal, (the two make much better friends), but the poor man needs to move on storyline-wise. I believe even Cady McClain has said as much as far as her character goes. This is why many viewers didn't appreciate Dixie's return in '06. The Zendall fans couldn't bear for Dixie to even take a second glance in Zak's direction, and the T&D fans didn't care to oblige either. I think both TK and CM were interested in playing the pairing, but as viewers were leaving in droves, McT or TPTB took a "mean" streak and made Tad and Dixie make plans for a date seconds before she scarfed down those infamous Peanut Butter Pancakes. Personally, over the years, I have liked Tad with Brooke, Gloria, and Di. And of course--Liza. Yes, I love him with Dixie too, and there will always be a fondness in his heart for her, but in real life...People Move On.

[SteveFrame]

I agree in real life they move on all the time. I agree about Tad.

As far as Erica that is what made her character even more special for me in the 70's. She was as much a part of Pine Valley as Ruth, Joe, and all the others. She interacted with them. Her manipulations directly affected the other characters and not just the characters in her story. She interacted with Phoebe, and I even remember her talking about wanting to live in the Tyler Mansion someday. What a great nod to history if they had her try to get the Tyler Mansion (Wallingford Mansion then) when Phoebe died.

They started a trend with Erica when the married her off to Tom Cudahy - all of Erica's men were new characters. And many times came with a whole set of new characters for the show - often with no ties to Pine Valley at all - which did make Erica and her stories an island to themselves.

The thing that helped with Tom is that even though he was new he owned the restaurant The Goal Post and interacted with all of Pine Valley.

Also with Adam Chandler they gave him the feud with Palmer and tied him to the canvas.

But with Brandon Kingsley, then Kent Bogard, then Mike Roy, then later Jeremy Hunter, then Travis, even Dimitri at first, and Chris - they have all been brand new characters and even the rivaries set up with Brandon's wife, Sarah, Jeremy's ex-lover Natalie and so forth had no history to them and were hard for viewers to take at first.

Of all of them only Barbara and Natalie were ever integrated into Pine Valley story and the rest pretty much faded away.

They just made Erica too larger than life, and in essence too big for the show. Not only that they made way too many mistakes with her age that has forever screwed up the use of any characters from Erica's past like Tara. They very well can't bring Tara back at this point who is supposed to be the younger sister of Jeff who they made younger to go with Erica's new age. Also they have made Tara the grandmother of a teenager - something that with Erica's new age she can't be.

So in order to keep Erica in her 40's as they have set up (46 to be exact; Kendall is now 32 as they celebrated her 30th birthday in 2006; Erica was 14 when she had her) - anyway they have to keep everyone around her at the same age too.

What is funny is that Erica kept getting younger while all the others not directly affected by her story got older. IN essence Erica and Tad are pretty well very close to the same age now.

[Sylph]

So... In the end... What did we find out about Lorraine?

[R Sinclair]

That, apparently, I can't joke about having phone conversations with her.

[Sylph]

 Stop trolling. If you don't like the thread, don't read the posts in it. This is just lame and pathetic.

[R Sinclair]

I didn't say I didn't like the thread nor did I say I didn't like the posts in it. It was just a damn joke! For the love of God calm down and quit it with the tedious name calling, already. You're trying way too hard to be pretentious. It stopped being cute about six minutes ago and has become incredibly obnoxious.

[EricMontreal22]

"So in order to keep Erica in her 40's as they have set up (46 to be exact; Kendall is now 32 as they celebrated her 30th birthday in 2006; Erica was 14 when she had her) - anyway they have to keep everyone around her at the same age too. "

I don't think the show thinks Erica's 46. Kids and parents do not age at the same time in soapland