AMC: Lorraine and Wisner

[Steve]

I have the Dan Wakefield book and I found the part about how Wisner was hired on page 110:

After the run of the Neil Simon plays, the only thing Wisner could find was a job as a stage manager of a pretty far-off Broadway show. Judith was pregnant and they needed money, so Wisner tried getting production jobs on soap operas since Judith had worked on "Another World" as an actress and they knew some people on soaps. But he had no luck getting the sort of stage production work he'd done in the theater, so Judith suggested he try writing for the soaps. "I'd read some of the stories he'd written in college," she says, "and I thought they were quite good." Wis wrote some sample scripts based on "Another World" because he'd watched that one when Judith worked on it and was familiar with the characters. He sent around the scripts and got a nice reply from Agnes, whom he and Judith had recently met socially. She gave him a trial, having him write one script a week. That was in January 1971, and he started writing regularly later that year. "July," says Judith, "It was July 11, 1971." Soon after, Judith herself joined the show.

[Steve]

I can't remember where I read it but I think that Lorraine had sent in fan mail to the show and Agnes asked her for her input into the college age storylines and eventually hired her from that.

[SteveFrame]

Steve, When I read that account, it made me think of so many others that got started in just that way.

Don Hastings in particular got started writing soap opera scripts in the same way. He wanted to write for ATWT so bad, but was afraid to approach Irna Phillips about it. I think it was Helen Wagner who never seemed to be scared of Irna that mentioned it to her the first time. Irna let Don write a few scripts and then used him for GL at first I think.

[Jonathan]

See, I told you Eric would know.

[EricMontreal22]

HAH except I provided the least information here Thanks Steve for posting the quote (Sylph you can get All Her Children pretty cheap secondhand thru Amazon, etc--I know you're not a huge fan of the Nixon shows but it's a pretty great, and rare, description of how a soap was made in 1976--I'd recommend it to fans of soaps in general as one of the best books).

Steve you're right of course, it wasn't like now--and for the most part they still had more patience with writers (though the list of writers for Where the Heart Is' brief run is pretty long)--but in LaGuardia's late 70s edition of Wonderful WOrld of SOaps there is a quote froma P&G exec about their process of shuffling producers, directors and writers between their shows (this would be around 1977) with the belief that you become stagnant if you're on one show for more than 3-4 years. It's a thick little paperback but I'll thumb through it this weekend and try to find the passage--so that was their practice for a time.

E

[SteveFrame]

Unfortunately P&G weren't the only ones to adopt that philosophy toward the mid to end of the 70's - especially the end of the 70's.

All the stupid executives behind the soaps then were grasping at straws to create the next General Hospital and if a producer or writer didn't deliver as quickly as Gloria Monty did - then you were out. They had some weird idea that since lightning struck once it could strike again. The sad thing was that Gloria Monty did something unique - all they were doing was copying what Monty did and not even in a new way.

Even at Days which was the biggest GH ripoff of the time, they got more popular but lightning didn't strike. And pretty much all the stories were similar to GH. Days completely changed from being Days of Our Lives - a show about psychological drama into GH-lite. And even though GH has successfully altered it's format to some degree over the years esp. during the Claire Labine years, Days never has been able too. It's fans have stuck it in the GH-lite vein and won't let it change again.

The only show and I mean the only show to stay faithful to it's roots in all this was Y&R. It was the only show to stay true to what it had been. It kept the tried and true formula that Bell brought to it. it didn't pick up it's pace. It didn't copy GH. And guess what it is the show that rose to the top of the ratings.

Soaps have copied stories over the years and were successful even with them. But even in the past when soaps have tried to copy a formula it didn't work.

Irna Phillips tried to copy Roy Winsor's formula of The Secret Storm when she created Another World. It didn't work. AW suffered until Agnes Nixon came along and really gave it an identity of it's own for the first time. But with many of these idiots that run soaps they don't learn from the past. And soaps have forever been hurt esp. when they all gave up their identity.

GH copying was the first time and then of course when Reilly introduced the sci-fi elements with the devil possession and the constant returns from the dead and stuff- then it became Days copying that was the next step in destroying the daytime soap opera genre. It seemed like every soap after that wanted to get in on the youth craze that these type of stories created.

I guess they felt that since Days fans accepted some of the outlandish stuff that their fans would accept it too. But in the end they turned off fans who felt so much of this was totally against what their show was about and totally out of place.

For years and years every show had their own identity and that served to help to make it relatable to a certain segment of the audience. It was unique. By the 80's and 90's all the shows had lost or were losing their identities except for Y&R. But even in the last few years with writers like Jack Smith and Lynn Latham many of the things that set Y&R apart from other shows were done away with.

Each show had a style:

AMC was the show to be counted on for doing social issues stories well and tell the best Young Love stories with a huge emphasis on family.

Days was a show about great psychological drama.

AW was the show that was set apart by having great actors, great dialogue - it was a great drawing room drama.

Y&R was a drama about young beautiful people in love.

And so on - each was unique in it's own way. Even many times you could associate a certain actor with a group of shows or a show. Many actors you just couldn't see doing a certain show or some shows in particular didn't care to hire an actor who looked like a normal everyday person. Some shows you would just never see a model-type actor. Now every show would rather hire a model and rarely ever do they hire someone who looks like the average person that walks down the street.

[Sylph]

Thank you, Steve!

Now only Lorraine's story is left to be told.

[Sylph]

For all those who're interested in what's Lorraine Broderick been up to, read this article.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

A good question to ask is, how does one go about becoming a writer's assitant? Does one have to work in production first? Is it similar to being a production assistant?

[EricMontreal22]

I think AMC for most of that era staid more or less true to its roots as well--and not a GH clone, probablybecause it was still a big success, and Agnes was still very much in control. I also woudl add to your description of AMC what most soap books from the 70s mention about it--its humour and use of over the top, *almost* caricatured characters in many of its side stories. (A few 70s books dislike this about the show complaining its not serious enough so I guess it took a while for all older soap fans to warm to it). AMC also had a rep for being pretty fast moving even before GH--again according to reading some of the great 70s books.

Still I think P&G's practice of cycling their writers/producers/directors between shows was pre the Gloria Monty GH. But yeah I know exactly what you mean--soap people basically gotr greedy when they saw how quickly GH became a phenomenon.

About Lorraine Broderick--I think I always assumed she was younger than she is. But god I want her back on a soap--back on AMC even as a consultant.

[SteveFrame]

To a certain degree I agree about AMC - they did keep their identity longer than the others - esp. in regards to it's telling of social issue stories.

But where it do lose it's identity was in making their couples more of a destined to be together thing. Agnes didn't do enough to fight against that IMO.

For years Tara & Phil were a typical soap couple and so were Paul & Ann and Nick & Ann. They were altered back and forth, but come 1980 with the advent of Luke & Laura - even AMC's couples because tied to one another for life. And many times when one part of the couple left, the person left behind just wandered (i.e. Peter Bergman and Laurence Lau).

Fans never would let Cliff move on from Nina even though Taylor Miller left the show and same for Greg after Kim Delaney chose to leave. And Debbi Morgan was the same way, she just drifted aimlessly after Darnell Williams left.

I just hated that so much. In the 70's when Richard Hatch left, Tara moved on to continue to be a successful and vital character. Then when Gorney left, and was replaced with Braxton - many even loved her Tara more than Gorneys.

I just hated when daytime soaps switched to that vein with their couples that they had one mate for life and no one else would ever be accepted.

And I know this thing didn't have anything to do with GH really, but a big mistake that Agnes made with AMC in 1980 was allowing Erica to become a big supermodel and move to New York. It really changed AMC and AMC really suffered for a few years by having too much stuff happen away from Pine Valley. AMC and the character of ERica have never been teh same either. I know that she would disagree with me about that, but I see that as one big mistake she made.

[EricMontreal22]

Yeah others have said that about havign so much in NYC--makes sense to me. Others will even say when AMC went to an hour and started having more murder mysteries, etc, it was a mistake but Agnes was kinda helpless here--according to All her Children she was NOT interested in an hour show.

AMC also by the mid 80s started makign Pine Valley a fairly big city--TWO big corporations (Cortland Electronics and Chandler) etc--something that seemed to be the Dallas influence on soaps--though again they prob suffered an identity loss less than some other shows cuz of the stability of the writing team, many characters, etc

[EricMontreal22]

One thign that interests me about Broderick is so few people seem to have an opinion her last major run--co-HW with Chris Whitesall OLTL for 2 or 3 years. I missed a LOT of that era because of living in Europe and other reasons, so cna't really say but it definetly was an odd fit--Gary Tomlina nd Chris Whitesall going for a campy show and then Broderick there.

[Sylph]

I think people talked about that one in here somewhere... If I find it, I'll let you know. But it would be better if someone wrote about it here, too.

So, Eric, this weekend you'll try to find the info on how Broderick exactly came to AMC?

[EricMontreal22]

If I do, what will you give me?

Yeah I'll do my best. The soap books and magazines I hoped would arrive today haven't though, so I might have to wait for some till next week (god I'm a nerd--i was looking forward to spending my weekend with my nose burried in them).