OMG I never really thought of that, but yeah I can see it, kind of twisting the question back around kind of thing that Guza does. I mean Guza doesn't understand why there's resistance to mob, Carlavati doesn't understand the resistance to Todd once again violating his former rape victim

I've never watched GH so I can't comment on Guza but I honestly can't think of a primetime or cable show where the showrunner could display what is, at best, an awesome lack of comprehension and, at worst, open contempt for their audience. For me this is another example of what has killed soaps. TPTB don't think of soap viewers as the customers/partners in this. They think of them as the enemy or the "trainable" student. But, I don't blame RC for all of this. He probably thought he'd be playing in the minors forever, then Frons brought him up to the show. He's going to throw the pitches Frons tells him to.

Now that I think about it there is one primetime showrunner who displayed a similar density and loathing for the audience and that's Aaron Sorkin. All I have to say to that is...Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip.

Edited August 28, 200817 yr by marceline

I just have zero interest in Todd victimizing a woman he gang raped. Plus have you read the SOD spoilers, what he is gonna do is making my hatred for this even more intense

I am curious about the reaction the audience had to the original gang rape story. I doubt people were saying it was something they were looking forward to watching. Yet few would argue now, that it wasn't one of the best soap stories OLTL has ever produced.

In the last few years the gang rape has lost a lot of it's "punch". Todd was redeemed (slightly). When he and CC's Marty interacted the rape was reduced to something that Todd regretted but couldn't change, and something that Marty just couldn't get over. It made them both sort of pathetic in my opinion. They didn't hate each other (as I would expect to be the case IRL). But it was always just there, and something they snarked about. Marty being left alone in a hotel room with her rapist (back when they were trying to find Marcie) was just bizarre. John and Blair just left them like it was no big deal. And Todd and Marty behaved like a couple who had divorced or something. It was very weird, and primarily because the rape as an event had lost all of it's impact or ooomph! This story is restoring that IMO. I think it's brilliant. I don't care though. I never liked Marty so I look at the whole thing very dispassionately.

Edited August 31, 200817 yr by rhinohide

IMO Todd and Marty SHOULD forever be uncomfortable around each other. I don't care what understanding's they might have come too, what woman would be comfortable at all around the man who raped her?

Now that I think about it there is one primetime showrunner who displayed a similar density and loathing for the audience and that's Aaron Sorkin. All I have to say to that is...Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip.

One iffy interview and RC's treating the audience with "loathing?" Why doesn't all of the audience think so? RC's comments here are candid, controversial and I don't agree with all of them, but so far he's been pretty straightforward in the mags.

It's not like he's Dena Higley or Pam Long. The geniuses behind the "brilliant" Todd DID storyline and Mrs. "I Can Write Spencer Truman Out Of Any Corner."

One iffy interview and RC's treating the audience with "loathing?" Why doesn't all of the audience think so? RC's comments here are candid, controversial and I don't agree with all of them, but so far he's been pretty straightforward in the mags.

It's not like he's Dena Higley or Pam Long. The geniuses behind the "brilliant" Todd DID storyline and Mrs. "I Can Write Spencer Truman Out Of Any Corner."

I don't know what "all of the audience" thinks. I haven't had a chance to talk to each of them.

And I laid out my reasoning for my use of the word loathing and it doesn't just apply to OLTL. It's endemic to soaps. Soap writers don't seem to feel like they owe the audience anything. There's no respect for the viewers. If he'd simply said something to the effect of "I know this is uncomfortable but I hope the audience will bear with me." he could've conveyed the same idea without looking clueless and dismissive. But I go back to what many actors have said. TPTB like angry viewers.

I think people are getting the wrong idea. Ron's not trying to sell Todd and Marty as a couple. He's telling a story that's intentionally tough to watch and he wants viewers to feel something. I am sure that there's going to be sufficient payoff when Marty miraculously regains her memory.

Overrated might be a better word.

Honestly, Ron's interview reminds me a great deal of Frons' educating viewers' remark. I think people who don't like the story don't need ReCycle to tell them why they don't like it and why they are wrong.

Perhaps calling him a hack is premature, but after the last few months I would say that the Saint Ron routine has been going on a bit long.

I totally co-sign this and everything marceline has said. It is interesting, to say the least, to see how much longer is this incessant praise and gratuitous defence of RC going to last. Especially in the light of these shocking interviews and happenings on screen. I didn't even have to try to prove he is overrated, he did it all by himself. Spontaneous storytelling, waiting for consequences... Yeah, all synonyms with "I don't know where this is going." He'll figure it out by the end, hopefully.

He should have been a bit more modest, one would say. "I think what makes this story great is you..." ... "but I think you can't be afraid to tell a story if it's a good story."

How can a story be good when half of your audience hates it and is absolutely disgusted by it?

I personally am loving the story, and like Toups I prefer Todd when he's being a monster. It'll be interesting to see what happens once all of this comes to ahead. I'm just enjoying SH and TSJ's chemistry, they are the ones selling this story for me. And part of me, which is terrible, kind of feels for Todd as he really doesn't have any friends at all.

In essence, isn't one aspect of a soap digging into that dark shadow corner of the human psyche that we don't want to see? I'm wondering, too, if those of us who didn't watch the gang rape are a little more open to this than those who did.

I've decided not to judge based on spoilers or interviews anymore, because the end result, for better or worse, never quite matches up. To be honest, the main reason I'm not really enjoying this whole thing is because Marty totally underwhelms me. I'm ready to root for inappropriate, psychotic relationship between Todd and Tess, because I believe the chemistry is off the charts with them. I think the PREMISE of Marty and Todd, as it's going, could be fascinating..the car wreck we don't want to see but from which we can't pry our eyes away.

I'm not ready to call RC a hack based on an interview. I think it's only fair to see this played out first. I do want to give him premature kudos for venturing into dangerous territory and not backing off. If this was Days, at the first protest, they'd pull the story and drop it, leaving the viewers scratching their heads and saying "What the hell?"

I totally co-sign this and everything marceline has said. It is interesting, to say the least, to see how much longer is this incessant praise and gratuitous defence of RC going to last. Especially in the light of these shocking interviews and happenings on screen. I didn't even have to try to prove he is overrated, he did it all by himself. Spontaneous storytelling, waiting for consequences... Yeah, all synonyms with "I don't know where this is going." He'll figure it out by the end, hopefully.

He should have been a bit more modest, one would say. "I think what makes this story great is you..." ... "but I think you can't be afraid to tell a story if it's a good story."

How can a story be good when half of your audience hates it and is absolutely disgusted by it?

And what is your yardstick measurement for gauging half an audience?

In essence, isn't one aspect of a soap digging into that dark shadow corner of the human psyche that we don't want to see? I'm wondering, too, if those of us who didn't watch the gang rape are a little more open to this than those who did.

I've decided not to judge based on spoilers or interviews anymore, because the end result, for better or worse, never quite matches up. To be honest, the main reason I'm not really enjoying this whole thing is because Marty totally underwhelms me. I'm ready to root for inappropriate, psychotic relationship between Todd and Tess, because I believe the chemistry is off the charts with them. I think the PREMISE of Marty and Todd, as it's going, could be fascinating..the car wreck we don't want to see but from which we can't pry our eyes away.

I'm not ready to call RC a hack based on an interview. I think it's only fair to see this played out first. I do want to give him premature kudos for venturing into dangerous territory and not backing off. If this was Days, at the first protest, they'd pull the story and drop it, leaving the viewers scratching their heads and saying "What the hell?"

I think RC explained very well what he's trying to do. It remains to be seen whether it will work or not.

I am also underwhelmed by Marty and always was. I would find this whole story more interesting if I didn't feel that it was mostly about setting up John McBain to the rescue and the grand John/Marty romance.

Edited August 31, 200817 yr by rhinohide

And what is your yardstick measurement for gauging half an audience?

His ego.

Is it to early to call RC a hack....Mendora, Dorian's Dropped takeover, 1968, and the new upcoming crap......Even DH didn't get bad until at least 2 years in. RC imo, is treading on hack territory.

'Im not quite understanding the resistance to exploring their relationship if she didn't know." - I'd love to see him say that to a rape victim

This whole thing is disgusting!