New blood in daytime: Novelists? Playwrights? Primetime Writers?

[marceline]

And I going to come right up against you. I think it needs to be completely reinvented. I don't think it has to be five days a week. I think daytime could go a a weekly format just like primetime with a 2-hour show every day Mon.-Thurs. (AMC/Mon, OLTL/Tues, GH/Wed, new show/Thurs, new show or "week in review" clip show/Fri.) That leaves an extra hour in the schedule for whatever game show/talk show/reality train wreck the networks may want to put on or they can free it up to affiliates for syndication. That immediately ups the production values because now they're producing 2 hours/week instead of 5. That gives us better writing (what decent writer want to come into a genre where their goal is to crank out as much as they possibly can?) and better performances (more rehearsal time and the chance for retakes). That will immediately lead to the other things you mention: "new types of stories and certain elements that could change the way a story is told - types of shots, different editing methods etc."

Right now, soaps are the fast food of the entertainment industry. How many people do you know aspire to work in fast food? It's something 1.) where people get their start and get the hell out; 2.) the do to pay the bills until something better comes along and/or subsidize another project i.e. another business they want to start or; 3.) the lucky ones end up owning their very own McDonalds but they sure didn't plan on that.

[All My Shadows]

ITA! I just couldn't agree more. PSNS is exactly what it is. The problem with other soaps doing the freaky, crazy [!@#$%^&*] is that that is NOT what they are. DAYS isn't supposed to be filled with sci-fi, supernatural stuff. It's not. It went decades without having that. Same with all of the other soaps. PSNS debut with those intentions, to be the "out there" soap, and even when its own die-hard fans were upset with it, they could still at least say that the show was still truer to itself than any other soap on the air. I think PSNS is just the type of show that you either get or you don't.

They are/were many writers who could easily turn out amazing material five days a week, and they did it for years. If a writer doesn't have the chops to do that, then they shouldn't consider working in daytime. It's not the genre's fault that most writers today can't handle it.

[marceline]

I'm not sure that's true. I just think there was less competition. But regardless what passed as amazing material years ago won't fly anymore for just that reason.

[quartermainefan]

I don't think a single show can draw away audiences, especially to all the other soaps. If you want to be honest and think about what kind of stories gets soaps mocked, check out on You Tube Carol Burnett's As The Stomach Turns. It isn't mermaids and magic that has been the sticking point for the masses, it's been the very thing soap fans insist on. Check out Susan Lucci and Phil Hartman in "All My Luggage".

I really don't think the non-soap watcher draws much of distinction btw evil twins, and evil mermaids.

[leevo64]

I don't think there was anything wrong with Passions. It was campy and wacky but it was also consistent and at times showed a trace of heart - Timmy The only thing wrong with it was that viewers didn't always "get it."

As for new blood... I'd love to see Silvio Horta (Ugly Betty) and Marc Cherry (Desperate Housewives) try out a daytime soap. Horta would be great for All My Children, Cherry could do Days of Our Lives or As the World Turns. Jon Robert Baitz would be wonderful for Guiding Light.

[MarkH]

You always inspire me.

I had an idea today, actually. Let's accept your thesis that nostalgia exists. Okay, so if you fail to honor it (GL), your audience gets pissed off. (Although, looking at the numbers, GL is NOT falling faster than the other shows).

But you want to try reinvention.

I think what I might have tried is "classic GL" on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. Then "New Light" could have aired Tuesdays and Thursdays. Classic GL could use mostly legacy characters and veterans; New Light could use the young characters and newbies and what have you. The two shows could be fairly separate, but there should be ONE huge (and compelling) umbrella story that always bridges the two shows. Over time, if both shows are acceptable, you slowly wean people from classic GL. Maybe you phase it down to two days a week.

This lets the people who like "classic Coke" continue to feel like their product still exists, while those who might be attracted to "new Coke"--who find the old formula too staid--have something too.

Moreover, the two shows both require less than a five-day commitment...which may make them more palatable.

Stupid idea? It is different from a spinoff, because it is really about one show morphing into the other in a single time slot.

[Sylph]

Re-read the topic, I explained myself, you misunderstood.

[Dan]

I don't know about this Mark, simply for the fact that there is a place on a show for newbies and vets alike provided they interact regularly and one group is not subjugated for the other. For example, GL's Kelly was introduced as Ed's godson. Nola was brought in at the tail end of the Roger Thorpe storyline. And so on.

It just seems this idea would isolate the groups even more than they are now and that's not what is needed.

I'd have to agree with AMS that the key to daytime's survival is diversity. There's no reason why Passions and Guiding Light or Another World could not co-exist. The problem with both Gloria Monty's original run on GH and JER's run on DAYS is that because they were successful, other soaps just had to copy them endlessly. There are now, it seems four shows on the air: CBS, ABC, NBC, and GL (simply because it IS so much different these days). There should be something for everyone to watch. PSNS for the younger crowd. GL and ATWT for the old. GH for those who like medical-driven storytelling. OLTL for fans of a more gritty and urban soap. B&B for camp drama. And so forth. Those in charge need to realize that each show will naturally have a different audience. Not every soap is going to have a high 18-49 demo but that's ok. Because if you reach out to more people, you diversify your portfolio in terms of ads and can court a higher number of companies to advertise with you.

Furthermore, there's no reason why Ellen Wheeler's re-invention of soap opera couldn't be packaged as an original soap concept. I think if it were not a classic soap with tons of baggage that was "cancelled," daytime fans might have taken to it a bit better. Schedule some "new" format soaps and see how they do, but realize that they are going to court a much different audience than the traditional soaps.

In a word, re-invention may be needed, but re-invention of the current mindset of those in charge. Am I being to idealistic? Probably. But I think this might be our best shot.

[Contessa Donatella]

Well, I think he wanted that kind of consistency. Although in general, there were fewer writers per soap & the HW, if they wanted to, could do most if not all of their own writing. At that time at P&G the HW worked for the show/P&G and any other writers worked for the HW. So, he also was working hard, although it didn't seem to daunt him to do so, and not having to share the money.

I agree that Passions should never have existed & once it didn't knock everyone's socks off in its first 6 months, it should have been treated as the experiment that it was. But, that doesn't give network people a way to save face. They were really convinced that it was going to quickly rocket up to 2nd or 3rd ranking.

But, NBC wanted to cancel Another World anyway. There were numerous reasons that they did what they did in the order they did. For their new show they wanted a launch date that could take advantage of the Olympics. With Sunset Beach they made a deal whereby everyone would take massive cuts to run another 6 months to the end of the year. And, Goutman had many demoralized fans & actors feeling like their show was being given back some of its ambience & style.

[Contessa Donatella]

Unfortunately, copycatting is very prevalent, in daytime, in primetime, in soda makers, in cleaning products, in cars, in institutions & major corporations no matter what 'product' they are churning out.

But, I think it did hurt soaps when they began to lose individual indentities, styles, ambiances, what kind of conflict tended to play out there. Some soaps had a stronger history with social issues storylines, some often had conflict between classes, ... and so on. Once you blur all that & have no show retaining any of those other kinds of conflict, every show has doctors, lawyers, parents, children, health tragedies, paternity issues, weddings that do or don't happen, sex instead of romance, adultery, you know those soap opera staples. I consider it a part of sick soap syndrome that show identities did begin to blur so, but I also think that some people, say on my short list, tended more to flatten that kind of show affect out, so they began to 'seem' like each other.

[Contessa Donatella]

And, I could go on & on about this, but I won't, but to a great degree shows teach audiences what they are & so what to expect from other shows in their genre. The form of Passions set in a small town, with diversity in its characters, with multigenerational characters had similarities to a soap opera in set up, but what it taught its audiences to expect was indeed a mockery of soaps & the anti-soap. And, it's not as if it was the glorious farce (which is difficult) of a Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman.

In some ways it may be because of Passions that daytime 'missed a generation' as someone said here recently.

[Contessa Donatella]

This is one of the potentials I've gnashed my teeth at for a long while & it has one problem that is huge & that is that everyone would instantly take a huge cut in pay while the number of people on contract for any given show would still have to be reduced to go back to the age-old status where people were on recurring, not on contract. And, that was a long time ago & I don't see today's economics working out for that many actors. Plus, the money that would pay the entire tech staff would also be in trouble because, say, for ABC's soaps, the East Coast people would work for 2 shows & the West Coast for one, going by what we now have & not knowing what they'd add. One repercussion is that you would probably quickly lose most of your longest-term vets.

Of course, there's no way of knowing if it would lend itself to 2 hour long shows anyway.

And, aside from however one could imagine solving these problems, personally, catch-up shows simply do not make sense to me. Avid fans don't like them because they're a waste of their time. And, so fans who do partake of them likely are simply being relieved of any need to actually watch their shows.

[Contessa Donatella]

I know many veteran soap fans, including me, who completely got what Passions was meant to be about, what it started as & how it did change. And, we completely understood the concept of starting a new show instead of changing one that is ongoing. That's where you run into the unique asset (or problem according to some suits) that US daytime soaps have gone on & on & on rather than having relatively short lifespans like telenovelas do or like, for example, Babylon 5 did. Passions had a relatively short lifespan & never went through any changing of hands so it's not surprising it hadn't yet had that kind of change hit it. PC had a short lifespan & it tried to be too many things even though in an anthology series of arcs it could be different things, until they got stuck on some things & wanted to repeat them.

[Contessa Donatella]

Well, for starters, after the NuCoke debacle, the real pre-NuCoke 'classic' drink never existed again. The 'so-called' Classic Coke formula is actually a compromise formula.

And, I think soap fans are savvy enough to know when they're being manipulated in the way you describe.

Last but not least, I think it is far from economically feasible. But, interesting.

And, thank you for noting GL's numbers vis a vis other show numbers at this time.

[Sylph]

I agree that Passions should never have existed & once it didn't knock everyone's socks off in its first 6 months, it should have been treated as the experiment that it was.

I find it a crime against humanity that this soap was allowed to spend millions and millions of dollars each year and other soaps weren't even allowed to step foot on TV. A crime. So much money so badly spent.

If NBC wanted a successful soap opera, they should have allowed Bill Bell or Agnes Nixon to create one in the 80s. Not Jim Reilly.

BTW, I posted about legacy of lunacy here.