EastEnders: Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

Because, IMO, DTC doesn't know how to write genuine drama. He never has. It's all camp and shock value. That's why the attempts at emotional drama (like the Carters) just don't work for me.

Denise is an alcoholic who beats Patrick, so...

[All My Shadows]

I feel like certain people behind the scenes at EE want to embrace a reputation of darkness and violence, and while that grittiness has been a huge part of the show's success and appeal, without the warmth and comedy to balance that, it just makes for a huge depressing mess. The show's been gutted so much in the last few years, I'm not sure if it'll even feel like EastEnders if I tuned in now.

[KMan101]

He made Denise an alcoholic who BEATS Patrick? You have to be kidding me. Disgusting. I'm really disappointed in that. REALLY disappointed. It also bothered me how they started off Ian and Denise, I liked it, but then she only stayed with him out of pity (because of Lucy's pointless murder, right?).

And I agree with you on him. Wasn't his first stint praised to hog heaven?

Edited January 21, 2015 by KMan101

[DRW50]

Yes, it was, and it wasn't that good either. A lot of EE fans care more about the soap wars and boosting and showing how loyal they are and getting caught up in hype. Highlights of his last tenure included grandmother-smothering bisexual Steven Beale, Heather's baby daddy storyline, Tanya burying Max alive, Jack Branning the walking penis, Nick holding the care hostage with a broken chair leg, and Stacey murdering Archie but it being covered up, because mental illness means you're a murderer so hey, what can you do about it?

This was praised because it was "cool" to like Santer and DTC. And now that DTC is back, it's the same all over again.

The only good thing I can say is that, sans Sharon, he seems to have finally realized a little that this is not Dallas or Dynasty no matter how much he wants it to be.

Edited January 21, 2015 by DRW50

[DRW50]

I think Eastenders as it should have been probably left around 2000 or 2001, if not a little sooner. One of the reasons I'm sorry Kirkwood and Louise Berridge both had disastrous tenures is because I think they tried to move the show away from some of the excess and some of the sneering Mitchell-style posturing that the show doesn't need and never needed. Sadly these failures, and the relative failures of all-singing, all-dancing, manic depressive voids like the Carters, mean the show is only further boxed in.

Edited January 21, 2015 by DRW50

[Ben]

Denise isn't an alcoholic - yet. She just likes to drink a lot b/c caring for Patrick is stressful; Diane Parish has stated that Denise is not an alcoholic or dependent on it in that way. She beat Patrick off screen once. It came off very random and I choose to forget it ever happened, just like the characters have.

I think the reason Santer and DTC's first stint was praised so much is b/c it came off the back of the awful 2004-2006 period. They did turn the show around and made it more watchable. There was a lot of terrible story decisions like Lauren mowing Max down; anything involving Jack's sperm, etc, etc, and towards the end especially, things started to fall apart. Just like in 2007, DTC has stepped in after the horrors of 2010-2013, making the show watchable again. It hasn't been as good as what it could have been, and there has been an over reliance on shock and plot driven stuff that makes the characters look dumb.

[DRW50]

I'd forgotten that Lauren story. I'd blocked it out. Wow. What a joke that was.

[DRW50]

Disappointed, if not surprised, that limited 'actors' who come across like Spitting Image puppets won awards at the NTAs. As depressing and ultimately irrelevant as Linda is, Kellie Bright should have won if anyone from EE won. She had much more difficult material than filling out a pair of jeans, making sad faces, and muttering "wot's wong L" 50 times an episode. And the only thing Nancy should win is a one-way ticket back to 1992.

Oh well. Awards are rarely about talent anyway.

At least Adam Woodyat remembered Anne Kirkbride when EE won.

Edited January 22, 2015 by DRW50

[TimWil]

Last night's He Said, She Said episode left me absolutely cold. Matt DiAngelo is now so detached from his role that it's impossible to have any idea what could possibly be going on in Dean's head. Kellie Bright was very much by the numbers in Linda telling the police the details of that night. This episode could have had moments of real power but felt neutered. I can't believe the high praise it has received.

[Bright Eyes]

Man tonight was just a horrible mess in an example of the worst in melodrama. Carl, you would have ripped your face off.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Bright Eyes

[DRW50]

I kept seeing the DS brigade saying this was Eastenders at its best, so I should have known.

What was it? All the Carter family reveals?

Was the acting from them any less awful?

How did Lee's ass look?

[TimWil]

I agree, Bright Eyes. Stan's pining for a reunion with Sylvie has been absolutely ludicrous despite Timothy West's valiant efforts. Kellie Bright is so wrung out now from being forced to play out the rape secret for so long that she can't make anything look fresh anymore. And Matt DiAngelo is simply a s****y actor and so we have absolutely no idea what is up with Dean, pardon my pun.

I unfollowed Daran Little on Twitter just now because I was fed up with his endless self-congratulatory retweets clogging up my timeline last night and this morning. I wanted to tweet him "Dude, are you aware of how this makes you look? Grotesquely immodest is what it looks like to me."

Carl, no ass shots of Lee in either episode last night but plenty of his "ugly crying face." At least we were spared Johnny's reaction on Tuesday's episode, which would have consisted of him placing his pointy finger up to his forehead and grimacing like a maniac.

Edited January 23, 2015 by TimWil

[Ben]

It all comes back down to the awful pacing, and the over reliance of plot over character.

Isolate the Shirley/Mick story from the rape story, and you have a simple story that features a whole host of complicated characters that had a year's worth of material at it's feet; if this had been Emmerdale, they would have gotten all they could out of it for the entire year, and we would have felt every beat of the story.

Babe had a crush on Stan when they were kids, and she has been jealous of her sister ever since. This should have been foreshadowed months ago, instead of randomly revealing it for shock value. They could have fed off of the sisters' rivalry and bitter resentment for a couple of months, with Babe struggling to care for Sylvie, sometimes restraining her out of bitterness, while Sylvie struggled to keep her mask from slipping. But no, we don't get any insight into any of these characters relationships or emotions b/c it isn't important compared to the shock value plot twists.

Shirley only told Mick all of this so she could earn his sympathy, while throwing everyone else under the bus. It was all an excuse of course, b/c Shirley never owns any of her actions. So, Shirley got pregnant without realizing (b/c Sylvie hadn't bothered to tell her all about sex, contraception or even what her period was all about), and Sylvie wanted her to get rid of it, labelled her a tart, etc, beat her, and pushed her down the stairs. Sylvie is now evil, a 1940s Cruella di Vil, so nasty and twisted as she spits at Shirley that she should have had her aborted, while lurching from demented to lucidity at leisure. But wait, lets not forget that Stan used to be reviled by his family for being nasty, too (before he turned out to be relatively nice with an acerbic tongue), so it turns out he used to hit Sylvie while being a violent drunk. Babe is revealed to be short for Baby, as their parents couldn't be bothered to name her, and it was Babe's idea for Shirley to pass Mick off as her brother - Babe entered as bit of a nasty character, who it turns out is just quite sad. Shirley blames them all for her problems. They even try to convince Mick that Shirley was a good mum as she took care of him and Tina after they got them out of care. (I swear, the timeline for all of this is so small!)

However, none of this explains why she ended up being an awful mum to Dean and Carly, considering she apparently married Kevin not long after abandoning Mick and Tina to live with drunken Stan. None of it explains why they all act as if they weren't estranged for years (something they all seem to forget). Shirley's Wicks history jars with her Carter history due to the retcon.

It's all very theatrical (DTC is a theatre fan and it shows) and melodramatic, but due to the poor pacing, structure and a lack of heart, the whole thing left me cold. All of this happened after Mick & Linda told Lee and Nancy the truth about the rape, and Mick admitted to feeling like he failed Linda by not protecting her. The guy has a lot going on up stairs, so to throw this Shirley mess at him was too much - the guy should be having a breakdown with everything he has to deal with. And a better actor would be able to convey all of that.

Tim: I don't think it's Matt Di Angelo's fault, as the writing just isn't there. It's not focused on exploring the characters emotionally, so Dean is just reacting or advancing the plot when necessary. I do like Linda, now, and feel she has a lot of potential. Her character is leading the rape story right now (after months of it being all about the plot).

Edited January 23, 2015 by Ben

[TimWil]

Great points, Ben, particularly re: Babe/Sylvie/Stan.

And I agree with you about DiAngelo in that the writers have been woefully inadequate in fleshing out Dean.

Edited January 23, 2015 by TimWil

[Bright Eyes]

I couldn't find an article, but Graham Norton will be having an EastEnders 30th anniversary episode of his show in Febraury. In the blurb on the BBC website, it says it will include past and present stars of the show.

I've seen every episode of Graham and watch every week (and have seen what I could of his previous shows), so I'm doubly excited by this. For his current show, the only EE stars I remember being on are Barbara Windsor, Jessie Wallace and Letitia Dean. Wallace is probably a definite, but I wonder who else he'll get.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Bright Eyes