Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

I think this is Simon Prebble in this vaguely frightening ad. 

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[Khan]

Martin Chedwyn: the only one of Lisa's husbands that she refused to acknowledge even being married to, lol.

[DRW50]

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I've read about the scenes of Mike at the picnic, giving an angry drunk speech about Vietnam, but I had never seen any glimpse of them.

You can still tell it's James Kiberd of course, with those cheekbones and that voice, but he does seem very different on Loving than just five years later at AMC. I think the most jarring was the 1984 clips Eric recently gave us where he looked extremely blonde.

[EricMontreal22]

What was the finale of Gilbert's storyline?  I have some scripts from his early appearances (which were close to supernatural--and credited to Agnes Nixon) but don't fully remember.But I agree that Addie Walsh's stint following Agnes Nixon was mostly really good (or I thought so at the time) and she followed the tone well.  Honestly I don't really remember Brown/Esensten's work until the Loving Murders started in full.

I think on my old half broken laptop I have some of the James Kiberd Vietnam stuff (including him at the Vietnam memorial) as well as some other good stuff like the Jonathan supernatural stuff, and I'll try my best to get that off the laptop and uploaded.

[dc11786]

@EricMontreal22

Gilbert ends up kidnapping Ava and Sandy and dragging them off to some abandoned church which I think was in the middle of nowhere. While in this decrepit house of God, Sandy nearly dies and Gilbert ends up saving him. In the meantime, back in Corinth, Alex and Charles have tracked down Denise Nostrand, who had been the Hunter family caretaker, who revealed that she had taken Gilbert and told the family he had died, while telling Gilbert his family hadn't wanted him. It's Marian Seldes in a role that she gives her all to as the uncaring, unfeeling Denise. 

Gilbert starts to show signs that he isn't a terrible human being and Ava definitely starts to soften to him. I never really liked Ava and Jeremy; I thought LeClerc and Peluso had workable chemistry but there was not really a story to tell. I thought Gilbert and Ava MIGHT have a bit more possibilities. 

Eventually, Alex arrives at the church and shoots Gilbert in a moment of hostility when Gilbert really is not threatening Gilbert's life. There was a question of whether or not Alex went to far in shooting Gilbert which left Ava in the middle. By that point, I wasn't super thrilled with the rest of the canvas other than elements of the youth set (Cooper and Ally were fighting over Casey's drug problem impacting Tyler as I think Tyler got into Casey's camera case where he was keeping coke and Casey and Steffi appeared to be growing closer during a drug induced photo shoot where both of them got high). The Tess / Stacey / Buck hijinks were stupid. I remember not enjoying Danny at all. I don't think there was much Alden story from what I recall, but it's not a period I commited much too. 

My DVDs end at January, 1995, so I mostly know of the pre-murder stuff from what I've read, but honestly very little of the final months of "Loving" appeals to me. I tried watching the murders during COVID but they were just so plot heavy that I couldn't really find a reason to continue. The pre-murders B&E includes a lot of the early stages of Angie / Jacob and the set up of Bree and Lorraine Hawkins with the write out of Cooper and Casey (both actors contracts were up). There was also the exit of Elizabeth Mitchell's Dinahlee who runs off to tell Trucker she's pregnant again. Then there is the drug storyline ending in Casey's murder and the silly FBI agent Carolyn stuff. 

[DRW50]

Thanks!

[EricMontreal22]

Thanks so much for all this!  I know I certainly watched during that era and a lot of the details came back to me (including Marian Seldes and her role.) 

Was that church the same one where...  someone had their wedding in the snow in the 90s?  (Was it a Stacy wedding?  God I should remember all this better...)  It always seemed random to me.

I did like Lorraine a lot, though more so on The City, and actually I even started to like Danny on The City--not sure why but I just found him more appealing but he fit better on it.

[Vee]

I might have to revisit the Lorraine story on The City, but I'm not even sure if much of it is on YT or available. I think she comes in around Christmas or New Year's '95, a couple months after Loving ended? She was a major favorite of mine in the LOV rewatch, and I remember liking her with Roscoe/Nick BITD but not much else.

Edited Saturday at 05:42 AM by Vee

[EricMontreal22]

I certainly still have no idea who Claudia Cohen is!

Of course cross overs to try to bring over viewers to the ABC/Nixon soaps is nothing new.  We have that early episode of AMC where Joe Martin's friend Anna Wolek stops over (I have to wonder if they actually advertised that at all or if it did make any OLTL fans check out AMC or if it was just a cute idea--I mean they didn't even air close together back then.)  (And OLTL had a GH crossover in their first year, didn't they?  Which would have taken some planning to bring John Baradino to NYC to film...

And then there were cases like Paul Martin coming to Llanview for the infamous 1979 trial--but I think that was done more because the show needed another lawyer character (I could be wrong but I think Paul wasn't even currently on AMC.)  In the 90s when the Labines (??) brought Marco Dane to GH was that crossover advertised at all?  The character had been off soaps for 10 or so years...

As for Adam and Dorian I *think* they only met during the babyswitch AMC/OLTL storyline (since they were both grandparents of the babies...)

I *do* like the idea of the soaps being in the same universe (and certainly I think, even without crossovers, Nixon thought of her shows being that way) although I admit things like the Babyswitch just went on too long, and sometimes casual short crossovers are the best.

From the AMC and then the OLTL Trivia books, there are brief bits about the crossovers (including things like Jack from AMC on The City dating Sidney).  They don't even mention Anna Wolek on AMC and I SWEAR there was some sort of OLTL and The City crossover (maybe even after the City ended?) involving some crime storyline...  And you're right, Adam and Elaine Princi's Dorian did interact (but I don't think I saw that...)

 

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[Vee]

These are wild. I had no idea about Antonio or Jake.

[DRW50]

@EricMontreal22 Thanks!

Kamar going to PC to help kick the show off would have been a good idea, if it had worked out, although there was probably too much going on to really fit him in.

I had forgotten about the Nora and Gannon crossovers to AMC, which may be for the best as IIRC the Cutting Edge one isn't great. 

I also did not remember Paul Martin returning to OLTL in 1983. That must have been difficult for Paul Mooney.

I think they missed Alex appearing on OLTL in 1997.

The only reason I know about the Princi Dorian/Adam Chandler crossover is the AMC cards I used to have. 

Jake doing a stint on GH with Lucky Lippman could have been fun, although if this was during the big Monty changeover I'm not surprised she wouldn't go for it. 

I don't know if I buy that about Ceara and Jeremy being a popular couple...

I didn't know Deborah mentioned Erica being on AMC. That's a very sloppy line that should have never gotten through. Erica was even mentioned on Loving as a real person after Jeremy died.

 

[Vee]

I think I saw the Princi/Canary scenes not long ago. Can't recall where.

[Franko]

They were different churches. You're thinking of both the abandoned church in Delaware where Gilbert took Ava and Sandy and the Glass Chapel outside Corinth where Trisha & Trucker's last wedding (and later, Trisha's funeral) took place.

Lorraine joined The City in February 1996. Poor Charles -- losing two women within months of one another.

@Kane came up with a decent way to justify this: that All My Children is a reality show to the Loving characters. There were also at least two other instances like this: Ally watching AMC while avoiding going to school at the start of her pregnancy, and Shana looking forward to catching up on AMC (specifically scenes with Trevor) while on bed rest during her pregnancy.

Edited Saturday at 02:53 PM by Franko

[DRW50]

That's a good way to look at it. 

Both Ally and Shana interacted with AMC characters too (I wonder if that line was before or after Shana actually met Trevor).

[Franko]

Shana's line was about a half-year after the Shana-Trevor meeting.