Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[glatwt]

I just watched part 1 of the prime time premiere episode and I'm definitely going to watch the rest, but my question is, did the daytime version pick up right after the events of the prime time premiere?? And why a nighttime premiere??

[NothinButAttitude]

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Yes, the show picked up where the special left off, and it was just given a prime time special just cause. I doubt it was anything more than them doing to either fill an empty slot or to build an audience with the show when it transition to daytime. Capitol premiered in a primetime special slot before transitioning to its daytime slot.

[NothinButAttitude]

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[NothinButAttitude]

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[Sapounopera]

Lol almost every video you guys post has another opening and a different tone. I have watched the 1983-89 episodes and from what you have posted here, I think I would have enjoyed the 1992-95 material a lot. Not a fan of the City though, it was trying to copy the Aaron Spelling soaps and it was missing the warmth and the old-school charm of the original show. 

 

If they had managed to keep at least a few popular key characters and beloved actors around, and not mess with the show's structure all the time, LOVING might have survived for several more years. It is never a good idea to recast your entire central family multiple times within a few years, B&B survived through the madness because the key players were the same for decades.  

 

Wesley Addy, Augusta Dabney, Noelle Beck, Robert Tyler, Perry Stephens, Chris Marcantel (Curtis should have been given the Rick storyline), Roya Megnot, Shannon Eubanks, Christine Tudor should have been kept. Stacey's brother Doug should have stayed around with a charismatic actor and been given the stories several random men who came and left within the years. Rena Sofer and Rebecca Gayheart should have been Rescotts or Donovans.

 

BTW what was that set in the 1991 episode? A mall or a street? I liked it. The Burnells set was also very nice. 

[DRW50]

I think aside from Perry Stephens and Wesley and Augusta, most of those actors wanted to leave, but I'm not sure. 

 

I agree the show is so different in tone with every clip. It's odd. I guess you can see why viewers were never around long. It makes for an interesting watch though. 

 

I enjoyed all the fun they let the characters have in that April 1991 episode. The Abril and Trisha story does nothing for me while watching these so I liked the break.

 

Christopher Cass is miscast as Jack, to say the least. The best I can say is he has fantastic legs. 

[NothinButAttitude]

 

I think as many have pointed out over the years to me is that Loving had a serious identity problem. It's like each regime changed the show from Marland/Nixon's original image in an attempt to piggyback off of other soaps that were flourishing at the time. Sad now b/c all soaps would go on to suffer the same fates by forgetting what made each show different and special. 

 

With the 1991 set, I was wondering the same thing too. Was it a mall or strip mall? Otherwise, I am interested to see how Burnell all came to be with Ava. 

 

I'm with @DRW50 in that I didn't care for Abril/Trisha's scenes that episode. It boggles my mind how Trisha instantly wanted a baby after marrying fine ass Trucker. Had I been her, a baby would be the LAST thing on my mind. We'd still be in honeymoon stage and babies would happen by accident. 

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 I hate how soaps marry these young twenty-somethings off so fast and make them yearn for kids so quickly. It'd be endearing to just see a couple adamant in building a future and establishing themselves professionally before reproducing. Then again, I guess since most of these characters came from wealthy families and grew up quickly that it only makes sense to have then yearn for kids quickly.

[victoria foxton]

I loved seeing Stacey. Trisha and Shana goofing around. We never get scenes like this on soaps today. I could be wrong but i think Burnell's was in a mall. I was surprised to see Paul walking. I thought Paul was already paralyzed by this point. 

[DRW50]

 

I think they were pushing her baby rabies (with her losing a child before this story) in order to interconnect the story with Abril and Clay. A great example of why "umbrella" stories can often be damaging to characters. 

 

I guess you could say that she had already had a happily ever after marriage to Steve that had ended horribly, so she didn't want to wait this time around, but I do agree that it didn't really suit her character. 

[You're Soaking in it]

I feel like I've hit a history jackpot here! I'm so glad I've read up on this board... I watched Loving from almost the very beginning (I was a kid, yes, but a kid with an incredible memory) - on through to its end... There were some questions here that I can definitely answer!

 

 

 

I don't remember if Ally was ever kidnapped by Carter (Dinalee definitely was) - but Trisha was held captive by Giff Bowman, Casey's father - who had a mental breakdown, and was saved in part by Casey.

 

 

 

Ceara's transition to Loving involved a Genie Francis body-double getting off a train from Pine Valley to Corinth... unfortunately during an unrelated shoot-out (bad timing!). She died in Jeremy's arms.

 

 

 

Jessica Collins & James Horan may have crossed paths, but if they did at all, it had to have been passing scenes... Before AFTER getting cozy with Clay, Dinahlee (like Lily, except minus the crazy) pivoted from Jack to his cousin, fell for Curtis Alden - and through three actors: Patrick Johnson (nice to look at), Michael Lord, and the returning OG Curtis, Chris Marcantel. Their marriage & moving into the Alden mansion is what gave her proximity to Clay.  More like, her affair with Clay gave her proximity to Curts! 

 

 

 

I don't remember them being on the show at the same time - he left & she arrived the same year. But I am sure they weren't involved at that point. I agree with you about Parlato - but he was an unexpected recast, as Larkin Malloy abruptly quit. I thought Malloy was VERY good, and that his Clay & Dinahlee were really appealing. She didn't have that connection with Parlato; it was as if he just wanted to own her. It was Horan's decision to leave, but there was always talk about him playing as "too young" to be the real Clay Alden. He was cast after wrapping a notable stint on AMC as Creed Kelly... similar to Parlato just having finished a run on OLTL as Michael Grande.

 

 

 

Remember that at this time, Cabot was mistakenly presumed dead... and that the only interaction Holms' Isabelle had with Cabot was through her imagination (or his ghost, as she viewed it). I'm not sure that Barry even shared scenes with Addy, as Holms' exit wasn't exactly amicable. I thought it was Barry who came off as REALLY hard-edged. Dabney returned just in time for Cabot's resurrection - of course, that wouldn't last too long, either.

 

 

 

Agree on all those counts! I really enjoyed Roya, and feel that she essentially created the character of Ava. But in spite of how entertaining she was to watch, it was easy to become frustrated with her. She was just SO selfish... Peluso, to me, was a seamless recast. She had a really similar energy & presence to Roya - but she matured the character and gave her a subtext that made Ava easy to root for. There was a good, caring person in that schemer!  And to your question, the Jack / Lily pairing in 1984-85 (as played by Jennifer Ashe) was the couple to bet on. I liked them, and rooted for her to overcome her breakdown from the abuse she suffered. Ashe's leaving changed that outcome.

 

 

 

Except O'Hara Parker was SO bland - we're talking a big wet blanket of rainbows & unicorns... make that BORING rainbows & unicorns. Emma Samms is anything but bland.

 

 

 

Elizabeth Savage is the second Gwyn - not counting Tudor's previous temp replacements, Leslie Denniston and Marianne Tatum. April Hathaway was Alexandra Wilson, who went on to originate Josie Watts on Another World.. her romantic rival for Ned was Kristin Larsen, played by Teri Polo.

Edited May 26, 2017 by YurSoakinginit
got the story out of order... fixed!

[NothinButAttitude]

 

Did Clay know that Trisha was raising her brother? Or was Abril the only one who knew the truth?

[DRW50]

 

Thanks for all your replies! Talking about Loving is something I enjoy a great deal, especially with someone who actually saw these episodes. 

 

I can see where they might have felt Horan was too young, but I thought he carried it off well. 

 

What was your favorite period of the show? 

[You're Soaking in it]

 

Probably the first few years, then the last few - from 1992 on... When I think about it, Nixon's influences were there for both. I liked that a sense of humor arrived around '92. Jacquie Babbin was brought in early in the decade as EP, because of her success with All My Children. But her time at AMC wasn't entirely a bed of roses - Zach Grayson's murder mystery, being one of the biggest letdowns. So what does she do with Loving? Orders not one, but TWO umbrella murder mysteries - first, Rick Alden, who almost no one cared about - and then this guy Monty, who had something to do with Clay's baby with Abril - and definitely NOBODY cared about... Oh, and both ended with HUGE letdowns. If memory serves me right, Monty was a diabetic and somehow killed himself, lol... For Rick, it was revealed to be Wally, the twin brother of Norma's boyfriend, Denny ... Again, who cares, lol?  (And I'm going to say right now, I could be fuzzy with that time - because it was so all over the place... But I think that's pretty close to what happened!)

 

So Loving wasn't a fit for her. There were so many EP's that came after... Fran Sears, Heidi Grainger, Josie Emmerich, then Jean Dadario Burke... Despite those changes, the tonal shift and new characters that came in under Sears and then-head writer Addie Walsh, I thought, really set Loving on a solid path. (Grainger would later clash with Walsh, causing her exit, and things unfortunately got a bit unstable again until Grainger herself was replaced.) 

 

Thinking about the above, a lightbulb went off and I have to correct something I said in the previous post... Dinahlee came into Clay's orbit when he discovered that Cabot wasn't his bio father - later undone, I believe - and he became hellbent on revenge. After Jack died, he became obsessed with gaslighting Stacy to somehow gain control of her Alden stock shares while hooking up with Dinah. His vengeance stressed her out, so it was easy for her to become hot for Curtis once he returned from the Gulf war. 

 

I think the weirdest, most inconsistent times for Loving ironically happened under one EP, Joe Hardy. I recall weird moments that made absolutely no sense and were never explained... Like Clay setting some sort of trap for Alex, Alex walking in some shack and sparks flying everywhere in slow motion... I guess it was supposed to be an explosion? And then the next episode, he's fine and Clay's like "see, you better be careful, I might sparkler you to death for taking over my life!" (Ok, I'm kidding about that last part... but that would have been a better conclusion!)

[DRW50]

Thanks. That last bit does seem ludicrous. 

 

Did Norma have an exit or was she just a victim of producer changes?

 

I think someone said Elizabeth Savidge was unhappy with her stuff as Gwyn and that's why they brought Christine Tudor back? Or did they just bring Christine back anyway? I can't remember. 

 

What did you think of Chip Albers as Curtis? 

[You're Soaking in it]

 

Tudor was open to returning and they wanted her back. I do think Savage was a very good recast for the time she was there, but not so great that she'd gain ownership over Tudor.

 

I thought Albers was a very good actor, but wasn't a great fit for the role. I couldn't buy that this was the same man once married to Ava. He didn't seem mature enough, and perhaps Albers was too young for the part. He was supposed to be Trisha's older bother, as well as Jack's peer / friend / cousin. They ignored that connection - maybe because it wouldn't have played well. The writing at the time didn't help: With the uber-preppy characterization and all those damn sweaters, I feel like he was Corinth's version of Fresh Prince's Carlton Banks.  

 

And there were so many Curtis Aldens! I remember liking Linden Ashby, Curtis #2, who did fall in love with and marry Roya Megnot's Ava. He had a similar vibe to Marcantel, but was a little more spoiled rich college boy than Marcantel's spoiled rich awkward boy. He married on-screen cousin Susan Walters (Lorna) in 1986, and followed her exit from the show. They've been together ever since.... #3, insta-recast Burke Moses, was physically way different than Ashby. But I also really liked him - a little more knight in shining armor. Too bad they married him off with Judith Hoag's Lotty. 

 

As for Norma, I think she just kind of faded out of the story after the Rick Alden murder mystery ended.

 

Edited May 27, 2017 by YurSoakinginit