May 19-23, 2008

[sacha]

Why such a sudden drop for Y&R in so few weeks????????

[MarkH]

JP hypothesizes that LML weakened audience tolerance for bad storytelling on Y&R.

So, in the current era, with poor storytelling and no momentum on the show, many audience members may have tuned out due to boredom. And if they don't follow behind the scenes (or if they do), they may see no hope on the horizon. So, they finally give up.

JP's hypothesis makes a lot of sense to me.

Many of us, let's face it, are looking for a reason to break this habit.

[Toups]

Full 2000 ratings have been added in the archive.

[Sylph]

Mark, what happened to viewers Lynn Latham stole from ABC soaps?

[PJA]

Y&R ratings are falling because the current writers are doing a poor job not because of LML.

[MarkH]

Do we have evidence she did this? I know her ratings spiked twice (John dies; Pheila returns). Did either of these claim ABC viewers?

I'd love to see that analysis!

But, my guess is that they are gone. Indeed, that is a fascinating proposition...

(1) If raters move to Y&R because they are disgusted with ABC, and they hear LML seems to be doing good stuff, I would argue such viewers are BY DEFINITION fickle. ("Real" soap viewers stick with their shows through thick and thin. I know there is disagreement about that on here, but I think this statement is generally true).

(2) So, fickle viewers (soap-switchers) come to Y&R. They have no emotional investment in the show. So, if the show goes bad..or if it just fails to engage their interest, they go away.

This raises a FASCINATING hypothesis, Sylph!

What if the APPARENT growth and stability of early-LML's Y&R was REALLY due to the migration of fickle ABC (and DOOL) viewers? So, when we saw ratings stability and ratings growth during LML, it REALLY masked the departure of long-term stalwart viewers and their replacement by this more fickle pool.

In this scenario, once Y&R returned to its' more traditional pace (which by all accounts it has), the ABC/DOOL viewers--fickle in nature because they have already proven to be soap-abandoners--flew away in droves. That would explain the sudden recent plummets.

I wonder if anyone has the data to track this kind of thing.

I just don't think it is that simple, but I have no evidence to disprove your conjecture.

Especially Y&R, with the oldest and biggest audience, should have the biggest proportion of people who "stick through thick and thin".

The massive viewer abandonment of the last few weeks implies that they were ready to leave. If you do not assume that is because LML created a new cohort of more fickle viewers (see an earlier post up-thread), then you have to assume it is because the viewers were "softened"...gotten ready to leave. I read this as JP's hypothesis. There is a cumulative disgust...but it has to get to a certain point before you're ready to tune out. LML got people near the threshhold, and then MAB walked them over it.

Now, to this I add: A lot of us have been blaming the glacial storytelling...the absence of momentum.

I don't think that is what is doing it.

Based on several informal conversations, the near universal comment that is being made is that viewers CANNOT STAND VICTOR AND SABRINA.

Every scene in which he kisses her, carries her up the stairs, they coo French to each other, etc....leads to disgust. I mean really, virulent physical disgust of the type that people turn off the TV.

(I don't have that reaction, but this couple is earning REAL hatred). Because the couple is producing DISGUST (that is a rare emotion for a soap couple to generate)...disgust is the most dangerous emotion. DISGUST is the emotion that makes people walk away from their show.

If my thesis is right, we should see the ALL TIME lowest ratings in the weeks to come. For example, if Victor and Sabrina were ever to marry...I think LEGIONS of fans would switch off.

So, I am now predicting that Y&R will continue to fall...ESPECIALLY in the third week of June. If that happens, it will help confirm that Victor-Sabrina disgust is driving a large portion of viewer defections.

In that case, the only thing that could possibly win fans back is a MASSIVE marketing campaign in which they reveal Sabrina to be an evil art thief, who has totally screwed Victor over. So diabolical, she planned this for years, befriending Vikki in Italy. So cunning, she is revealed to be as the FIRST person to TRULY bring Victor down.

That, I think, might bring disgusted viewers back. They'd love to see Victor eat crow, be humiliated. Sadly, Eric Braeden will refuse to play it, even if it saves the show. If the creative team offered Braeden a followup revenge storyline (in which he hunts the globe trying to apprehend and destroy Sabrina), he might do it...and that might grow viewers.

[Becki]

I didn't tune out because of Victor and Sabrina. I tuned out because they continue to destroy characters right and left. Victor is about the only character I still recognize from all my years watching the show. ALL the current couples on the show right now suck. Period. No one there has a clue how to write a drama filled romantic tale anymore...and as one of those long time viewers you spoke about, I finally decided I'd had enough. I tuned back in to see Cassie remembered and that's been it.

[Faulkner]

Sabrina is a big part of why I don't watch Y&R anymore - she represents what's wrong with Y&R as a whole. There's no there there. Whomever thought this actress/character would lure in viewers doesn't know how to read the room.

[PJA]

Well I was close to tuning out but this past week gave me hope. But the reason had nothing to do with LML... I was just completely bored. I mean there are barely any storylines going on. If we want to just watch people go about there daily lives and have casual conversations we can tape our own lives, and they'd probably be more interesting than this. At least LML had some plot going on, these writers have just started putting together some sort of semblance of a plot.

I will say this, if the general audience feels that the show has improved since LML left, then it makes no since that they would leave after the show is starting to improve.

I have no problem with the actress that plays Sabrina but if the writers just have to pair her and Victor together, must we be tortured by their french flirting?

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I posted this in the Writers/Directos thread, but it's probably more fitting here. LOL!

Someone mentioned this to me, and I think it's possible.

I think we're stuck with Maria for a while, for the simple fact she's married to Bill Bell, jr. We know how the Bell's love nepotism, like how Cricket was forced down our throats for YEARS before she became tolerable. I think Bill jr hopes that Maria will grow as a writer, no matter how stupid that sounds.

Anyway, someone will have to be the scapegoat for the declining ratings and quality, and that's going to be Griffith IMO. They already brought in Hogan to help Maria (we'll see how well that works). I wouldn't be surprised if Griffith is used as a scapegoat in this whole situation, no matter how much of the blame is on him. My only fear is we'll get yet another recycled EP who has no idea what he/she is doing.

[PJA]

That would be sad if they made him the scapegoat. I thought he was doing fine when he was writing by himself at the beginning of the year.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Maria was his Co-HW, but once all those writers came back from the strike, the show started sucking immensely again.

I wouldn't be sad to see Griffith go either. A lot of the blame is on him for this mess as well...

[SteveFrame]

Well for me quality of the show really has little to do with why I stay or why I leave a show. Boring stories have a lot to do with it, but more than that when I don't recognize the show is when I leave.

Under Jack Smith when the show became all about the Fishers I left because that wasn't what Y&R was for me. All that last Sheila round and stuff was just not Y&R that I knew.

Under Latham there were things that were bad, but overall the show was about Kay, Victor, Paul was back, and even though there were newcomers the show still seemed like the old Y&R to a degree. I never got bored once with Latham's Y&R. I had problems with it, but there were enough of the right people on that I was familiar with and the stories were there and okay.

During the first part of this year Griffith and Bell seemed to bring some of the great parts of Y&R back and I was really looking forward to some great stuff.

But the last month and a half have just seen me slowly quit watching. And I don't even go back. I have not even turned the show on for 3 weeks - not even 5 minutes of it. The show just got sooooooooooooooo boring and many of the characters I didn't even recognize anymore. At first I was fascinated by the Gloria / William / Allistair stuff but it turned so bad.

And I have never liked the Victor and Sabrina stuff. I just do not like her at all - character or actress.

[Faulkner]

All of the talk about the Adam/Heather pairing has me intrigued - I like Chris Engen - but there's another part of me that couldn't be bothered. And that part of me is winning. I didn't watch at all this past week.

A to the freakin' men. I would almost pray for a LML-style murder mystery to see her gone.

[Sylph]

Maybe we can compare the ABC soaps with Y&R. I think this is exactly what happened because I know that people became really, really disappointed with all of ABC's soaps, the GH really started to suck and people just migrated wondering what is LML going to do with Y&R. I know a lot of ABC fans commented how Y&R was much, much better than what they were seeing on ABC's serials.