Members NothinButAttitude Posted January 27, 2023 Members Share Posted January 27, 2023 I've mentioned this before in here, but I think SB's main problem was that anyone outside of Eden, Kelly, CC, Sophia, Cruz, Mason, Julia, and Gina were not developed much. The remainder of the cast (in the history of the show) mostly served as plot points. And I don't get why the Lockridges weren't a mainstay at the height of the show, or why their rivalry with the Capwells further exploited. To this day, I just wanna trek 2 hours from here to Atlanta and go meet the Dobsons and pick their brains. I wonder if they even have a story bible for SB b/c if they do, I'd want to read it. I doubt half the stories in the story bible even popped up onscreen. And if they didn't I want to know why not? Was it network interference? I think the reason why they weren't so chaotic on the P&G shows b/c during those times, it was apparent that P&G didn't play that mess and were heavily involved in their shows. Also, I the genre pre-Ice Princess (on GH) was rooted deeply in reality. From what I've seen of SB, it was like the Dobson were trying to take elements of what made GH and DAYS pop culture darlings and place them into their shows (i.e., supercouples being thrown into these grand, over-the-top adventures). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sapounopera Posted January 27, 2023 Members Share Posted January 27, 2023 You are so right. GH meets DAYS with a touch of DYNASTY. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NothinButAttitude Posted January 27, 2023 Members Share Posted January 27, 2023 And I think out of those 3, the show they should've most copied from was DAYS, their sister soap. Wasn't GH starting to lose its luster around the time SB came on? I mean Luke and Laura, the main draws, were gone. And correct me if I am wrong (anyone), but I don't see many people raving about GH from the mid 80s to early 90s with the exceptions of Duke, Anna, Robert, and Holly at times. But I don't remember anyone raving about a major defining story during that stint, and most GH fans I've come across have expressed that the show didn't find its footing again until Wendy Riche took over GH. With DAYS, they churned out supercouples and big stories like it was nothing throughout the 80s. Even though the show delved into grand dramas, it still appeared to be grounded. And the cast as a whole was developed enough where you had leads and supporting--A, B, C, and D stories. I never got why Eden/Cruz and the perils of Kelly literally dominated. I think if the show was going to focus solely on the Capwells then maybe they should've taken the approach of B&B and simply been a 30 minute show with a smaller, tighter cast. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members j swift Posted January 28, 2023 Members Share Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) I feel like the history of the show was pretty clear after a recent review of the 1984 SOD news on Tumblr. There was a long planning period, NBC built a new soundstage, they spent millions developing sets, including floors that looked like tiles but could be silent on camera. They cast actors from other popular soaps, and they set up an expensive PR campaign for the debut. Then, it all starts to fall apart. The original CC had a heart attack and they had to reshoot the pilot. AMC wouldn't let Marcy Walker out of her contract early so she has to enter the show weeks later. They couldn't decide on who should play Lionel, so he wasn't in the premiere. Which set the stage for years of conflicts with the Dobsons over casting (of course culminating in their final fight over the casting of Pamela which got them locked out of the studio). Also, they miscalculated and set the first week of episodes during the summer Olympics in Los Angeles. Perhaps they looked at the 1980 games that were boycotted by the US, but created a boom time for summer soap ratings, and they thought audiences would be looking for alternative programming because the Russians were boycotting the games; who knows. However, the first ratings were a complete flop. New World was new to network daytime programming, NBC had spent a fortune, and now everyone was in a panic. They fired multiple cast members within the first few weeks. They moved up the scheduled earthquake story in order to garner interest once the games were over. And, there were weekly leaks to the press about how the network was pissed over the poor ratings. So, whatever bible was planned was clearly out the window, and whatever creative freedom was given to the Dobson's was quickly subverted once New World and NBC felt that they couldn't be trusted to bring in new viewers. Edited January 28, 2023 by j swift 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan Mason Posted January 28, 2023 Members Share Posted January 28, 2023 Yep. Judith McConnell was still in the Dominic disguise only when she first started. It was right around the same time as the Joe recast as well. He was a temp. He subbed for Justin Deas for a week or two in the spring of 1988. I remember him fondly from an episode of Square Pegs where he played the school's new hunky substitute janitor, but he was an odd choice for Keith. I just figured maybe it was an emergency situation and he was the best available on short notice? Thinking about characters disappearing made me remember how I found it kind of hilarious that getting paired with Jane in 1987 was the kiss of death as far as your longevity on the show. She dated Pearl's brother Brian. He leaves town. Then she dates blink-and-you-miss-him Warren #2. HE leaves town. Then she dates Brick. This time they BOTH leave town! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wendy Posted January 29, 2023 Members Share Posted January 29, 2023 Someone has a YT channel devoted to Cruz/Eden, but they also posted some good Mason/Julia clips. I know everyone loved Lane Davies' Mason most. So did I. But I always did like this scene with Julia and Gordon Thomson's Mason after Eden's last "death", when she fell over the cliff. Nice to finally see this scene again: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Soapsuds Posted January 29, 2023 Members Share Posted January 29, 2023 Please register in order to view this content 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beach Climber Posted January 31, 2023 Members Share Posted January 31, 2023 LD was the best Mason but I’ve come to appreciate GT’s Mason a lot upon my rewatch. He played a side with Julia that I don’t think LD was ever willing to. It was obvious how much he loved and was devoted to Julia even when they were apart and it made me buy Julia taking him back in a way I had much more trouble swallowing with Lane’s Mason. He played things much more aloof and they definitely relied on the actors’ chemistry. Mason/Julia’s relationship definitely had their toxic elements but there had to be that underlying pull there for me to buy Julia giving him a millionth chance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Liberty City Posted January 31, 2023 Members Share Posted January 31, 2023 Judith McConnell stepped into the role of Sophia on October 29 (a Monday), and Dane Witherspoon exited the next day, October 30. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beach Climber Posted January 31, 2023 Members Share Posted January 31, 2023 Watching the months leading up to Dash raping Julia and man, they really squandered the chemistry between Timothy Gibbs and Nancy. Was Dash always planned to be a long term character or did they change their mind later on because I can’t fathom why they thought he would work after this SL. The way they portrayed him subsequently kind of confirmed that and I remember being annoyed by anyone who they turned into a Dash defender. I also don’t buy Augusta, before the rape, encouraging Julia to pursue a casual thing with him. She wanted her to move on but Augusta is bright enough to see that Dash was hopelessly in love with Julia and the problems that could lead to when it was obvious that Julia didn’t feel the same way. He wasn’t hiding his feelings very well. Everyone could tell. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chrisml Posted January 31, 2023 Members Share Posted January 31, 2023 The Julia/Dash rape storyline felt so lazy and offensive. It's as if they didn't know what to do with the two characters so they fell back and the rape trope. Once the rape happened, the storyline really became so unsavory and offensive with Julia kidnapping Dash, Dash holding Julia down again, and then all the rapist as erotic dream fodder when the Dobsons took over. Gibbs and Grahn did have chemistry, and it's a shame that the writers lost interest in the character of Dash and his story. It felt like they just used Dash's story to kill off Constance Marie's character. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beach Climber Posted January 31, 2023 Members Share Posted January 31, 2023 On the surface level, I got what they were trying to do. Most rape victims are attacked by someone they know and not a stranger. The date rape, he said/she said scenario was a fairly new concept on TV. I didn’t even mind him being acquitted because that’s a likely scenario. He’s a young, attractive guy, Julia and him were close leading up to it and she slept with him once before. A lot of people would also look at him and think why would he rape someone when he could easily find a woman who voluntarily want to date him. Where they got me was that he should have exited after the trial. They were clearly trying to sell that what he did wasn’t as bad as the rapes they showed before and it was. I think they were also trying to sell an insulting message that Julia might have deserved it to an extent for leading him on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members j swift Posted January 31, 2023 Members Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) While the very idea of provoking an audience discussion about cause of a sexual assault would be abhorrent today, it was very much in the culture at the time in 1990. The Accused with Jodie Foster was released in 1988, and up for awards in 1989 when the story was probably pitched. There was also a case in Florida where the defense was predicated on the skirt the victim wore at the time of the crime. Even the use of the term date rape is antiquated because it presumes that a prior relationship mitigates the criminal intent. So, in that context I think they were playing with the idea about cultural questions regarding sexual assault, as opposed to trying to blame Julia or malign her character. Regardless of the writer, SB had a history of stories inspired by the films of that period like Madeline's murder and the film The Jagged Edge, or Eden's rape and the film Malice with Alec Baldwin, and the Harland Richards story with the film Black Widow with Debra Winger. They used the cultural conversations of the moment to create drama. Unfortunately the 90s were filled with erotic thrillers where sexual assault was portrayed as thrilling or sexy, but that was another time in culture and I believe it's unfair to view soaps produced then through a modern lens without context. Edited January 31, 2023 by j swift 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoria foxton Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Dash had potential but the rape ruined that. Having Augusta lusting after her sister's rapist. Like a cat in heat. And Katrina defending Dash to everyone in town. Were some odd, horrible choices by the Dobson's. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marissa Gallant Posted February 1, 2023 Members Share Posted February 1, 2023 I'm at the Dash/Julia rape. It's appalling. Nancy is great as always. But Keith's reaction of ignoring it is not his personality. He DESPISES rapist. He went full bear on Eden's rapist snd he hates her. It just isn't him. Augusta is so sympathetic to Julia that there'd be nothing that could turn her onto a Dash groupie. I'm finding it difficult to continue. Next up is Lisa/Eden and full on rewrite of Sophia's story 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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